Dragon Ball Super: New Image of Goku’s New Transformation Partially Leaked?

Goku may be getting a new transformation in Dragon Ball Super. We’ve seen him covered in red aura in the opening for Dragon Ball Super and a teaser image of him steam/fire surrounding him.

Also, Toshio916, who works on Dragon Ball Super, tweeted he is expecting the birth of a new form. While he later retracted his tweet saying it was an error of his part since he not good with English, it certainly makes us wonder!

In an image from a catalog of Dragon Ball Super products, shown below, there is Goku-shaped chocolate. In the box art for that chocolate, there is a picture of Super Saiyan Blue Goku, but also a character that looks like it might be Goku with red-colored Super Saiyan 2 hair. Could this be an image of Goku’s new transformation partially leaked? At this point it’s unknown, but it certainly looks like him and the box says “Dragon Ball Super”. As we learn more, we hope to let you know right here on Saiyan Island!

If memory serves us correct, we saw the image below of the original Super Saiyan God leaked by a report on Toei Animation’s offices presumably by accident prior to the release of Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods in 2013 so it is not unheard of for us to see Goku’s new transformation in a medium outside of the anime or manga for Dragon Ball.

  • Yomi

    If that is Goku, back there, his proportions are way off.
    Also, this particular set features Shenron under a Red Filter.
    image.prntscr.com/image/759aG7t9TWidcllzBFWXJw.png

    I wouldn’t jump the gun on this one. It could just be a trick of glance.

  • Warrior Primus

    It literally looks like super saiyan God I don’t think this is the new form

  • Sinedd

    Super Saiyan Hyper God…that means other villains should get new transformation to cope with Goku’s unbelievable power. I think by the end of Super Kakarot will become the most powerful character in DB again..

  • Scott Baker✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘᶰᵗ

    looked at image you cant see anything stop jumping the gun

  • Salador

    So there’s gonna be Super Saiyan God 3? From red to blue to red again? I know it’s not claimed but that’s what it’s implying and if it is then that’s just lazy. It better have some new features like maybe a tail or longer hair like super saiyan 3, otherwise it just feels the same.

  • Lunos

    Chocolate SSB..? That’s all I see on that picture.

    Is this supposed to be a complicated joke that I’m not getting or something?

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Thank you! I wrote this under like 10 YouTube Videos talking about this beeing his new form. It’s too damn obvious that it’s just a Red Filter. Hell, even Goku’s clothes is red-ish looking.

  • MaxMouse

    lazy…. I was disappointed since super saiyan god was just goku with Red hair then I was even more disappointed when his new tranformation was just super saiyan with blue hair.. blue hair looks terrible on him and vegeta… they should have just took super saiyan 4 and changed that a little and call that SUper saiyan god….since GT aint canon anyway…

  • Yomi

    YES! I remember saying that yesterday on Kanzenshuu, like “why is Goku’s dark blue undershirt dark red?”
    It makes so much sense that it’s just a filter.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    No. See the image to the down right. There is the chocolate Goku. To its right, SSB Goku. To its left, a new Goku form. You can see it better in other images.

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    Can’t see sht

    Can’t you guys have a more zoomed pic?

  • TheSherlockHokage

    You can see it clearly. Just see a better image.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    No. It has the hair of SS2 Goku. SS God has normal Goku hair.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Go to Geekdom101 video. It shows there.

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    Saw it better on some sit just now

    And now I’m just hoping for it to be fake, cause it looks seriously bad, its the ugliest transformation in DBZ yet (worse than Zarbon’s)

    So hope it was a photoshop mistake, cause ew

  • TheSherlockHokage

    It is just a photo, so calm down.

  • KDG

    Lazy is constantly exploiting people’s thirst for Super Saiyan instead of writing better material. It’s been over ten different transformations already. Do they seriously need to continue the same overused formula even now, instead of just letting Goku and Vegeta grow stronger in one ultimate form? Super Saiyan God was lazy enough as is. I would have been fine with Super Saiyan 3 being the last of the transformations.

  • Di

    we don’t even know if that’s hair, you are desperate af

  • Tsuna Sawada

    SI still hasn’t reported on U6 namekians

  • colonel179

    I think this new form will happen when he gets SS Blue with Kaioken at 10000000000X and so both powers will “fuse” together making it look like this.

  • randy191993

    Honestly, can’t we just wait untill it actually appears? So sick of all these halfbaked fan theories, 10k mods of it already on Xenoverse when we don’t even know if it will appear at all. For all we know it could just be a strong wind from below making his hair go up. Everyone was all “Woah look white lines that’s a new transformation!” and it turned out they just shielded from poison. Just wait for it goddamnit.

  • randy191993

    it literally just has hair standing up. It could be a windgust for all we know, just like for the Super Saiyan God picture. Everyone is so desperate for beeing the “First” to have found a new transformation that they pull every straw so desperately… it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

  • Salador

    I can see where you’re going I can agree. I feel like the series is saying, “To get stronger requires newer transformation”

  • TheSherlockHokage

    I agree on the desperate part. All youtubers do is do a video of nothing. Like come on. But we know that Goku will have a new transformation, so oh well.

  • Aj

    You can easily tell that it’s hair, much like SSJ2’s.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    No. Just see a better picture. This picture is so unclear. A clear picture shows Goku with SS2 red hair.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Geekdom101 is the king of theoriesXD. Like come on man. The joke is that the theories are not even close to happening.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    I think this is how it goes. Normal form with god ki means SS God. SS1 form with god ki means SSB. SS2 form with god ki means this new form.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Yeah it’s not even funny anymore when YouTubers with so many subscribers make stupid theories. I can’t take these people serious tbh. Some of those things they’re saying make 0 sense like do you even watch the show?!

  • Di

    ok it is hair but that doesn’t mean it is the new form, it could be just a red colored image of ssj2 cause goku have been using that form a lot

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Yup. I think they are just desperate for more views. They even understand the simplest things wrong.

  • Scott Baker✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘᶰᵗ

    thing isthere is no point of ssj2 with god ki, because ssj blue already dose everything, when it comes to perfect Ki its a repeated flaw and its a reason gohan will surpass goku with your statement, beerus has flat out said when they first ever meet base goku (before becoming a GOD) cabt beat frieza on namek, this is proof that goku and vegeta focusing so hard on transformations, they had neglected training how they use to before becoming super saiyans, the main reason Whiss had them train in base form and not transform when training with him is so they would get vastly stronger in base form rember transformations only multiply the base power, aka

    a ssj blue goten and trunks, currently are still weaker then gohan ultimate why? because its multiplying there base strenght and there base power is vastly bellow gohans base gohan can take on ssj goten trunks heck ssj gohan can beat ssj3 gotenks,

    this is the point i am making why push out more transformations, when ssj blue is perfect in what it dose, all goku should do is strenghting his base power. if Base goku can train to = golden frieza. ssj blue goku will destroy him.

  • Scott Baker✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘᶰᵗ

    either way did none of you notice the limit break so called goku looks like ultimate gohan

  • uhMayzedHD

    The leaks keep calming you can’t avoid them if you don’t want to be spoil you really got to get off the internet for tell Saturday and Youtube just worst they show up in your recommended section.

    You got Goku new form
    You got this Namekian with makes no sense to me when the Tournament started they show off all 12 Universe fighters and none of them shown a single Namekian now 1 appear outta no where. Toei going try boycott this some how.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    And then you see that Cabba base form is equal to that of Vegeta’s as Vegeta stated in the anime. Dragon Ball Super makes no sense in the power scale. So SS2 God might be a thing. It is just weird and over dozed to have the same transformation with different colors.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Nope. They didn’t show all the fighters. When they showed U6 fighters, two weren’t shown. So nothing wrong. Plus, they are 8 universes not 12.

  • uhMayzedHD

    There are 12 all 12 Universe gods are there. But only 4 Universe that’s not fighting.

    You was right they only show 8. Goku and his team was talking about if 8 would be enough? So how they adding 2 characters some how with they boycot it.

    If they was 10 from the beginning they be in shadow outline hidding them next to Universe 6 like Universe 2

  • This isn’t a leak or a new transformation, it is the color of a red chocolate.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    There are 12 universes, but since the tournament is for 8 universes, just the fighters of these universes were shown. Yes. I know. Looks like they can become transparent. XD.
    So, do you remember me?

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Noooooo.
    It is the image beside SS Blue behind the chocolate.

  • uhMayzedHD

    I remember your name but you have remove your pic

  • TheSherlockHokage

    Infact, I have deleted my account about 4 months ago. Just made a new account today.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Why you delete it?

  • TheSherlockHokage

    For life. I got really busy the past months and so much had happened in my life during them.

  • SOLOmio

    Toei only did one good transformation so far. if this transformation is from At than at needs to take inspiration from DQ and tobal.
    but damn even my phone take better pics. this is so blurry that can’t even know if it’s goku or gohan

  • BUGHUNTER6 .

    Looks like they just did SSG but with spiked up hair. “No, the color is different” It looks f**king red xD If they want to do a new transformation, they have to do try a little harder.

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    Back before the Super Saiyan God and Blue transformations were officially revealed, it all started with ”just a photo” as well

  • TheSherlockHokage

    I know, but this is just a photo. So the graphics are off.

  • Koibito888

    Transformations are SUPPOSED to be subtle they’ve literally set that up throughout all of Z since SSJ became a thing.

  • BUGHUNTER6 .

    I can understand when you go from SSJ1 to SSJ2 when it’s still Super Saiyan. But they just went from red to blue, and now back to red? When Kaioken is also red..?

  • Koibito888

    No this is what forms need to look like

  • BUGHUNTER6 .

    I wouldn’t say SSJ2 to 3 is subtle either. Tbh you don’t have much of a point… Most transformations are not subtle.

  • PurexedSolitude;

    I wish Toriyama would go insane with a transformation for once, like with GT.

  • Koibito888

    I’ll answer both things on this comment.

    To the first, you need to look at more than the colors and look how transformations went through Z.

    To the second, you’re right, but look at the cost of that. Look at every SSJ form:

    SSJ1 was at it’s absolute best when it was not bulky, when the change was so small other characters questioned if Goku and Gohan were in base form when they walked out the chamber.

    SSJ2 happened and it was subtle, a decent enough difference, but it has the same thing as 3.

    SSJ3 was not subtle, you’re right, but that came at the cost of a very draining form. All forms are a thing you can get better at, but SSJ2 even is not something you can master – as in you can’t go full power without bulking up and even if you work on it, it’ll still always burn Ki unlike SSJ1. 3 is obviously the same. Before you question that SSJ2 can’t be mastered, note that Toriyama did straight up confirm this saying that SSJ2 AND 3 burn too much power even after Goku fought Beerus. More importantly, what happened RIGHT after SSJ3? Mystic Gohan. Elder Kai even told them to their faces that transformation was bullcrap.

    So no SSJ3 was not subtle and some forms are not subtle inherently, but the big and flashy ALWAYS gets surpassed by the more subtle in the end. Combine that with the fact that all the gods (of U7, before we knew of any more) were all mostly simply designed and thin (or fat, but not really ever muscular), and SSJG as it is is literally the only logical design that it could have been, a god power that didn’t further drain the user than 3 would HAVE to be subtle, and SSJG did great to pile on the subtle changes.

    So such a simple form’s power, God Ki, combined with SSJ, it would HAVE to be a hair color change – anything else would not make sense.

    With this one we don’t know what it is yet. Hell, I’m still betting it IS Kaioken. In the U6/U7 Tournament Goku called Kaioken an incomplete technique and he went all the way up to x10. Sometime we have to see what that completed technique is. Kaioken already started to change his hair color with the red light effect on it, going further I could see the red overpower the blue. If that’s it then that’s why they’d go to red.

    My point is there is a rhyme and reason most people don’t like to take the effort to think about and so there probably is one here. But this idea that the forms are products of not trying is objectively incorrect. That’s why when the first concept of SSJG happened and it was huge and bulky and flashy Toriyama said no to that guy and redesigned it subtly, he wants things subtle because that’s what he was always building towards.

  • Koibito888

    He could, but he doesn’t want to. It’s not his style.

  • Koibito888

    I bet this new form is either something that will retroactively explain Rose (if it’s a form like that, Zamasu didn’t have SSJ in the anime nor did he even realize Saiyans power up with anger in the anime, it just being Blue but he chose the color makes little sense maybe some completion of SSJG), OR (what I’m more hoping for honestly) is finally the complete version of Kaioken on Blue.

    Goku did call Blue Kaioken an incomplete technique before going all the way up to x10 where the hair started to change color. This could be the completed version or something, maybe he straight goes x100 and it just completely reds him.

    Or it’s Gohan lol

  • All I see is Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

  • Rojai

    Honestly I think the black haired super saiyan look would’ve had me way note hyped, but THIS……

  • jshep23

    Look to the right…

  • Just a giant blur of colors.

  • Rojai

    Right behind blue Goku is a new form

  • Rojai

    The f*cked up part is that that form is probably gonna be SSJ2 mixed with God ki. BTW does Hit have God ki?

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    I don’t think so since it never was stated but we know like nothing about Hit anyway. He’s 2000 Years old. Dude sure has a lot to tell about.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    It’s nonsense anyway, look up Yomis comment below. He/She was the first and has a scan who confirms that the background for this product is made more red than the rest since we see on the scan a Red Shenron. Don’t know why he isn’t top comment >_>

  • Rojai

    He

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Cool

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    No matter how the graphics are put, they already revealed the concept

    And the idea of a SS2 on top of a RED Super Saiyan God transformation is motherfucking ugly

  • Anthony_weaver86

    So this means the other ssj forms will be relevant again, cool I guess

  • Zany

    lol maybe this is “red mystic”! I’m not actually that stupid, I’m just making a call back to before ssb was revealed.

  • No one Knows

    …It is red! Am I right?! Yeah?! 🙂

  • No one Knows

    Ugh. Take easy, buddy.

    After I see a huge chocolate of Goku in the picture, I also see your word “chocolate”… it makes me feel hungry. I really need to eat…Ugh. 🙁

    Brb.

  • Ahtma ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵂᵃʳᶜʰᶦᵉᶠ

    Power scale =/= transformation dichotomy

  • Kris

    Someone see’s a glimpse of hair behind a picture of a piece of chocolate? I’m not that desperate, I can wait for the damn episode to come out to see wtf he looks like, some peeps need to get a life.

  • It is either fake news or alternative facts.

  • Don’t forget my Nutella!

  • I wouldn’t be surprised if Goku can go Super Saiyan Blue 2 or whatever. Goku always has another form that he magically pulls out of his ass and then wins at the very last moment. Then the new arc starts and that new super powerful form is all of a sudden too weak to beat the new enemy.

  • TheSherlockHokage

    You can see a better image in some videos. This is so unclear.

  • No one Knows

    LOL!

  • SOLOmio

    no difference in goku’s hair design, is just a recolor.

  • Koibito888

    Yeah, it’s all it needs to be. Toriyama did that on purpose it’s supposed to be subtle, the flashy form always gets outdone by the subtle this is a fact even in DBZ.

  • Koibito888

    SSJ2 with God Ki is literally what Trunks did for his SSJ Rage form.

    I think it’s gonna have to do with Kaioken and not be a new SSJ form.

  • Koibito888

    Well they still couldn’t beat Frieza in base not because they neglected training their base form, if the train their body at all they are still training their base form that’s just their body, you can neglect SSJ and not have as good Ki control or ability to go into the form but your base power does not decrease if you train a bunch in SSJ. He still couldn’t beat Frieza because Goku hit his max potential back in Cell Saga (a fact he explained very thoroughly) and other than getting forms that multiplied him passed his limit, Goku couldn’t get any stronger and that’s why they relied on transformation. Base Goku can’t beat Frieza still because very contrary to popular belief characters aren’t hundreds of thousands of times stronger than other characters and Goku’s power at that point in base was still not better than 50x itself on Namek (with SSJ that could beat Frieza) because power does not increase in that vast of quantities. The technique of God Ki (as the anime explains is just holding in your Ki while raising it) let them surpass their limits. Whis wanted them to train in base form to make them not rely on transformation you’re right, but it was not because their base form got weaker from being neglected or anything. That base power was at a hard limit since Cell Saga that only new forms could multiply further.

    And there is a point of SSJ2 with God Ki and that it’d be twice as strong as Blue. People don’t get it yet it seems but there already IS an SSJ2 with God Ki – that’s literally what SSJ Rage is, that’s literally what Trunks already did.

  • Koibito888

    That’s actually my guess too but probably at x100 not that crazy number up there lol.

    Kaioken on Blue was called an ‘incomplete technique’ by Goku in the tournament and only going x10 already started to change the color of the hair and fade out the blue. Bet the ‘complete’ version will go x100 and completely wash out the blue for red making this form.

  • Koibito888

    I don’t think it will be a new form, I think if anything this is going to be the ‘completed version’ of the so called ‘incomplete technique’ that was Blue Kaioken.

  • Koibito888

    No they shouldn’t have. These forms HAVE to be subtle. DBZ has always given the best power to the most subtle form. The flashier the form, the more harsh the drawback of the form has to be. If SSJ4 was a thing, as bad as 3 was 4 would have to really screw up the user.

    No if there was going to be a new form that could just be used without drawback, a new power that could finally up his base, it HAD to look like what SSJG looked like.

    And no it’s not just Goku with red hair. By that logic SSJ Goku is just Goku with spiky blonde hair and blue eyes. SSJG is Goku but with red hair, a thinner body, different eye color, pupils in the eye SSJ3 style, a different aura color and consistency, SSJG has as much if not more changes from base form than SSJ1. If you wanna say SSJG is lazy then SSJ is lazy and SSJ2 is even lazier.

    But no it’s not, the forms are supposed to be this subtle, that’s the point, that’s Toriyama’s style, that’s what he’s been building since Z. That’s why when the first draft of SSJG came and it was a bulky Goku with big hair Toriyama said no and went the completely opposite design.

    Lazy would be taking the route of less work for oneself, Toriyama made MORE work for himself redesigning a form to be the way he needed it to be. Lazy would be just accepting the first concept that passed his view, but he didn’t.

  • Rik Clarke

    well yeah. That’s how DBZ has always been. Don’t fix what is unfixable..

  • Koibito888

    Rage pretty much already is Blue 2

  • KDG

    I hope it’s not a new form. It took me a long time to even get used to Super Saiyan Blue, which I still think is pretty stupid. Constantly adding new forms is extremely lazy and gimmicky.

  • What if it’s GOHAN SSG!!! DUN DUN DUNNNN I HOPE BUT IK THIS HOPE IS FARFETCHED

  • SOLOmio

    Yeah, but even ssj2 and 3 had a tweak in the design!

  • Koibito888

    SSJ2 mixed with God Ki is already a thing, that’s what Trunks did to make ‘SSJ Rage’.

  • Koibito888

    What don’t you like about Blue?

    I don’t mind if it’s a design change that changes his form but I’ll be happy if it’s based on a technique, such as Kaioken, and not some like… further concentration of God Ki. I like forms when they make sense and when you can work out how they work. In the manga Goku powers up a stupid amount just because he can hold his Ki in more. The only reason just holding in your Ki works as a power up is because they pre-established that it makes a new kind of Ki, with Goku already having God Ki, holding in all his Ki would at best put him at a 100% state of his existing power

    I hope it’s Kaioken, that we get to see him like complete the Blue Kaioken technique, go Kaioken x100 or something, and the reason it’s reddish because like x10 already started to wash out the blue with the lighting effect that such a high version just straight turns it red.

  • Koibito888

    Yeah and each one had problems in wasting energy. More powerful less wasteful forms have to be MORE subtle. It’s why SSJG was so subtle in design, just adding that to SSJ logically couldn’t change the form much. This new form needs to be something simple. Hell I’m hoping it’s not a new form and is just Kaioken.

  • KDG

    What I don’t like about Blue is that not only is it another unnecessary form, but it’s basically just the original Super Saiyan with blue hair and aura. I honestly think these forms should have stopped at Super Saiyan 3, yet this formula continues to be exploited, mainly because the fans can’t seem to get enough of these transformations, considering the many extremely corny and unimaginative designs of Super Saiyan 5 and on. It’s an extremely lazy way of writing. The authors clearly can’t find other ways for these characters to become stronger without increasing these character designs with new forms, and frankly we have already seen at least 10 different forms. It’s overdone, and at least in the past it was exciting. Now it’s just protocol, and I find it tacky. That’s my problem with Super Saiyan Blue, and basically every other Super Saiyan form after 3. Even Super Saiyan 4 was pushing it, but I at least thought the design was imaginative and brought things back to what the original true power of the Saiyans was: their tails and the transformation that could only be achieved with it. God and Blue just completely lacked imagination.

  • Koibito888

    But see that IS dbz, it’s always been. Like you can’t count out the Grade 2 and 3 forms either – since SSJ became a thing it’s been a power crawl to find new ways to use those powers to power up to new forms that would get outdone most of the time in that same arc, by the next arc at best. They can’t, or at least shouldn’t just not do that. Granted yes, a couple of the forms have unnecessary, SSJ Rage didn’t NEED to happen but it represented a cool possibility in power and it wasn’t something Goku will get so I think it’s fine, and Rose was completely unnecessary and unless they explain it further I hate the idea behind it.

    But Blue was necessary the second there was a form completely separate from SSJ. Once there was a whole new form and not like SSJ activated on SSJ to make 2 but a whole new form not dependent on SSJ, there HAD to be a form that combined both powers.

    I disagree highly with the fact that a form has to be innovative or unique, what they absolutely have to do above everything else is make sense, fit in with that power crawl, it has to be a way that’s possible with what the world has. That’s what these forms are about.

    With making sense, I HIGHLY disagree with the idea that SSJG was lazy, SSJG was perfect. DBZ set up transformations to be this way, the flashier it is the more drawbacks it comes with and is always topped by the more subtle. Bulky was bad so SSJ2 went higher without bulking much, SSJ3 was incredible but drained fast and was nearly immediately outdone by Mystic which is just a base form. Along with all the gods being simply designed, I mean if there were any power passed 3 that didn’t have an even bigger drawback, SSJG is what it would HAVE to look like. It was objectively not lazy first off because lazy would be Toriyama just accepting the first design that passed his view but he didn’t, he literally made extra work for himself to make God look like it did and it’s perfect because it follows every logic of transformation set by Z while also being completely new while SSJ4 sucked because it went against pretty much every theme ever in trying to be new and unique.

    Not only that but God needed to happen too. Goku could not be going any higher without something that broke his limits. Goku hit his limits back in Cell Saga and only got forms to forcefully multiply himself passed that limit. A new form needed to be something like SSJG and the form needed to look like it did, those were completely necessary if there was gonna be any more DB.

    Once SSJG became a thing, like I said a combination of the forms needed to happen and with the appearance of SSJG, a combination between the two could only logically be that subtle of a change as what Blue is. Those forms were absolutely necessary. That’s why I love everything about God Ki, SSJG and Blue.

    Rage I like because Goku doesn’t get it so it was an out of the way showing of further possibility (SSJ2 with God Ki) and that kind of stuff I think is fine, not oversaturating the main character while exploring new possibilities so I like Berserk too.

    That’s why I hope it’s just Kaioken. It’ll have been built up for arcs now with Goku calling it incomplete at the tournament, using it sparingly but getting better at at least basic Kaioken on Blue, and not only that but if it is it makes Blue even MORE necessary, and would be a powerup based all in things we know.

  • KDG

    I don’t mean lazy in a design-sense – although truthfully it was a lazy design – but lazy in a sense of unnecessarily relying on a highly overused method. What you’re saying is the only possible way for these characters to become stronger is for them to continuously transform. I disagree with that. The authors could write up new attacks, new training methods to increase a character’s base form so that the already existing multipliers make them even more powerful, or even find a way for Goku to have mastered Super Saiyan 3 so that it did not burn so much energy. If Frieza could focus his energy so much in the afterlife that his golden form no longer burns through his energy the way Super Saiyan 3 did Goku, then Goku could have done the same. God and Blue weren’t simply “necessary.” The issue is that DBZ has relied solely on Super Saiyan forms since the Frieza Saga so much so that it’s the only thing fans care about at all. This is proven in the fact that the many years DBZ was dead, there were countless fans creating ridiculous crap like Super Saiyan 5, 6, 7, etc., and just like God and Blue, they were nothing more than already existing forms with minor cosmetic changes, like silver/white haired Super Saiyan 3s and 4s. God and Blue were nothing more than fan service, and I don’t see how that makes them necessary.

  • Paul Watson

    Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2, XD

  • Paul Watson

    He’s 1000 Years Old.

  • Paul Watson

    No, Trunks Didn’t Use God Ki, XD

  • Paul Watson

    I Think His Max With Kaioken Was x20.

  • Paul Watson

    Actually Goku Said He Did Master SSJ2…

  • Paul Watson

    I Did See 2 Silhouettes When They Were Shown, lol.

  • Probably.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being Super Saiyan Blue 2 or something like that.

  • Paul Watson

    Nah If Anything It’ll Probably Involve Kaioken. Maybe Blue Kaioken x20, XD

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    “Over 1000 years old” anyway, my comment still makes sense

  • Koibito888

    It wasn’t though, again it had to look like that, it’s what transformation had built to for the whole series and Toriyama went through extra work to make sure it looked like that. That’s objectively not lazy, you may not like the subtlety to the design but objectively speaking it was factually not a product of laziness.

    And no, what I’m saying is that it’s part of Z. Not that transforming is the only way they can power up (hell Kaioken is a technique, not a transformation, so Super already started with attacks and such), but that it is a necessary part. You may dislike that Z became about that but it did so early, it’s what made Z, Z. It’s part of it and they can’t just stop it cold turkey. Yes you gotta make new things but you can’t just make everything new to the point where it loses what made it itself in the first place, just to be unique. There’s a balance to it, some things have to stay consistent and transformation to power up is a pretty huge one.

    “New training methods to increase a character’s base form so that the already existing multipliers make them even more powerful” That’s literally what God Ki was, and that was necessary. Again, Goku hit his max base power back in Cell Saga and since only was able to get forms to forcefully progress. Something big was absolutely necessary to increase base form naturally passed that limit, they couldn’t just train a bit more, something huge and beyond mortal power was absolutely needed to make that happen, that’s what God Ki did which was incredibly important. You’re saying that could have been done without a form, which sure it could, but it wouldn’t have been anything close to impactful as it was with a form to accompany it. Even better was that the form became surpassable by base form so it was a temporary form who’s power was necessary but didn’t add to a continuing stack of transformations. SSJG itself was necessary, Goku needed a new form and new base power. It would have betrayed the style of Z to not do this and not gonna lie, without this new form the powerup would have been far too arbitrary and honestly? Boring.

    God Ki was necessary to increase Goku’s base power and a form was necessary to make that not be a random arbitrary power up, and the simple existence of SSJG makes Blue necessary. If Kaioken is the next powerup it makes Blue even MORE necessary since he needs Blue to do Kaioken in SSJ (in which x10 is already better than anything 3 could give him) and then there you go that would be the writers making Goku progress through a technique and not a transformation.

    To the other stuff, Goku should never master SSJ3 that would be the worst writing ever. I hate that people have this idea about DBZ that power just goes on forever without work and piecing things together, when it’s that very power crawl and the existence of hard limits that makes each advancement matter so much and makes them so cool. This idea that Goku can just master a form is what lets people think he can just keep doing it and keep getting SSJ4, 5, 6, 7, 8, a million. SSJ2 and 3 can’t be mastered, they can be better controlled but to a point, not like SSJ1 where it can feel as natural as base form. The fact that SSJ2 saps a bit of energy and SSJ3 burns a crap ton is what makes those forms a tangible thing, the fact that these forms are unnatural stretches and stacks of the SSJ form (as confirmed by Toriyama himself) is what makes the power crawl actually mean anything. SSJ1 being mastered, feeling like base form so that the same spark of anger will activate SSJ, just already on SSJ to double up the power makes SSJ2 actually… Like a real thing that it’s believable characters can do. The fact that SSJ3 is so unnatural of a reach you gotta first take advantage of an endless energy state like fusion or being dead with a body, and the fact that that burns as much as it does shows the ultimate limit of mortal power. To just master it, now that would be awful writing and should never happen, and could never happen.

    You say if Golden Frieza can do it SSJ3 Goku can but that’s simply not true, Golden is not a form like SSJ3 where Frieza had to stack up so many powers to force an unnatural transformation, it’s a single evolution just like SSJ1 and that’s why it can be mastered. So it’s definitely not a matter of if Golden can do it SSJ3 can.

    There was literally nowhere they could have gone without a new power, and that new power would have been bland and arbitrary without a form to show it fully. And SSJG is not just an existing form with minor cosmetic changes, SSJG has just as many, if not more, changes from base form than SSJ1. If SSJG is just base form with this or that, then SSJ1 is just base form with spiky blond hair, yes Blue is just SSJ with a different color (which it needs to be because that’s all Blue is, SSJ1 with new Ki, and again the more subtle the better) but SSJG is far more as far as actual details changed.

    And again Blue was necessary the second a non SSJ based form existed.

  • Koibito888

    Lol okay c’mon now, we gotta stop this silly idea that it somehow wasn’t God Ki.

    Trunks used a blue Ki with the same exact visual effect as Goku and Vegeta’s God Ki, it shrunk his muscles, it drove him up to a power level comparable to everyone else using God Ki, and specifically involuntarily summoned a God’s attack.

    So if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it must be a cow right? Lol

  • Koibito888

    Yes and his max with SSJB was x10 I don’t get your point?

  • Koibito888

    Goku said he mastered it in anime, but Toriyama himself said that he hadn’t in interview and that it was literally the reason he stopped using it for serious fights (as in he exclusively uses it now for sparring matches and playing with people). SSJ2 and 3 can be worked on and energy waste can be managed a bit better, but it can’t be mastered to the literal degree that ‘mastered’ means for “Full Power SSJ”. You can’t be SSJ2 and go full power without bulking up naturally, you can’t make SSJ2 feel like base form and waste no energy at all in it. SSJ2 will always waste a little bit of power and just enough for Goku to not use it in serious fights.

  • Koibito888

    That’s also a reason I think it’s just Kaioken

  • Boruto_Uzumaki

    With Blue Goku’s Kaioken only went up to x10
    In Base form he went up to x20

  • Edgaras Mugenis

    Goku ssgod hits beerus
    while ssblue 1/10

  • Zorawar Heisenberg

    It looks like SS Blue changed to SS Red .. Like , how bout , you make Goku , SS 3 Blue … SS 3 Is my favorite form, just make it blue DAMMIT !

  • KDG

    I suppose I must simply agree to disagree. I still think these constant transformations are unnecessary. I get where you’re coming from with staying the course and remaining consistent with Z, but that’s not necessarily a must. Toriyama clearly did not stay the course in transitioning from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z. And I’m not saying to make something new entirely, but there is always the option of sticking with what’s already there. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always felt like Z focused so heavily on Super Saiyan forms that it took from the actual writing. That’s how we ended up with generic villains who have no real depth or motive for their evil acts, and a cast of protagonists with very little to absolutely no character development. And with the Tournament of Power, the authors are trying to rush through character development for the many characters who so suddenly became nothing in Z, and it feels very forced.

  • Edgaras Mugenis

    ss Red is GOD!!!
    ssblue is not
    ss mystic gohan is great
    and dbsuper is here and will show us many amusing things yahoo

  • Edgaras Mugenis

    MAYBE gt universe seek revenge after being destroyed

  • benji delgado

    Hello, friend, how you doing remember me hope you saw SSG RED is back and he can change into it at will just like WHERE????? THE MANGA! like he did with Hit. So much for he absorbed it into his base form so he doesn’t change to SSG RED anymore man those were good times.

  • benji delgado

    Yes it’s RED.

  • Koibito888

    I remember. I also remember I had this conversation before realizing that they explain God Ki in the anime as merely a technique rather than some separate new kind of Ki, something I was incorrect about. Still waiting to hear how they explain it though, and still this means it all contradicts Toyble’s work where he indeed showed the mastery of SSJG into base form. It also doesn’t change the fact that the Manga executed it poorly with no proper explanation for something that just loves to overexplain things, and that the form the anime used instead was far better and more logical than what the manga did.

    I was incorrect that they wouldn’t put it in the anime obviously, here’s hoping they do it differently than the manga and actually hint at how it works and have a better reason to use it.

  • Koibito888

    But what I’m saying is things literally could not have gotten any more powerful. Without introducing a new power Goku was stuck, that bullcrap in GT where he was so much stronger without any sort of new power. Goku hit his limits and without an even more inconvenient and draining form than 3 (not that there was much more to go with forms without a new power anyway) he could not have hoped to get any stronger.

    Mastering SSJ3 would not have been possible, and not gonna lie but if they introduced God Ki the other way around, as in if they introduced first the concept you could hold in your Ki while raising it to reach higher power, not any new form or anything but just ‘do this with Ki and you can be stronger’, that would have been unnatural to Z, feel way too different, and feel like some fanfic bullcrap. If they needed to introduce such a concept it HAD to be introduced in a very stereotypical DBZ way, and they needed to introduce such a concept, again there was literally no other logical way for Goku to just get stronger.

    I disagree that the development feels forced. Gohan’s had been building since RoF, Krillin’s and 17’s felt really natural to me as well as Roshi’s what little he got honestly. Tien didn’t need any and didn’t really get any, same with Piccolo, these are both characters who have never shown to hit any limits, giving them long periods of time off screen of pure training is perfect reason for them to be stronger, and Roshi’s is just reasonable they didn’t need him till now. Krillin finally dealt with past stuff that would naturally come up and I don’t feel they went too hard on 17 either.

  • benji delgado

    Lmao, This is fun by “better reason” you mean to save stamina like Where??. Also, how does this contradicts Toyble’s works where even in the anime they show what you like to call it “mastery of SSJG into base form” but here we are and they can still do what?! Transform to RED at will.

    “It also doesn’t change the fact that the Manga executed it poorly with no proper explanation for something that just loves to overexplain things, and that the form the anime used instead was far better and more logical than what the manga did.” HAHAHAH REALLY! like the anime did any better throwing this out now in the real tournament. When even you thought they wasn’t going to go this route come on don’t give me that. The manga is actually the one taking it to the more logical step by having Goku master Blue instead of making up a new transformation in an exhibition match.

  • Koibito888

    No, I mean hopefully they do it better in the manga whereas the reason it became useful was for something stupid. It was dumb that they oh so suddenly dropped two paragraphs on how in rapid succession Blue can only use 1/10th of it’s power and suddenly that’s why Vegeta lost to hit so Goku did it to save stamina. In the anime it was merely Vegeta couldn’t figure out the technique he was against and Goku had the chance to figure it out and countered it with technique before needing more power and speed to keep up with that technique. That’s far more natural and required less info to be shoved in, the anime slowly built up the fact that SSJB uses up stamina, far better way to reveal it, over time.

    “Also, how does this contradicts Toyble’s works”

    Because Toyble’s work is what shows Goku using the power of SSJG in his base form. Now that’s the only thing that shows it, the only point there that Toyble’s work in that instance contradicts everything else.

    Yes, the anime did better by throwing it in here because again it wasn’t used for the crappy reasoning above. Also in the anime, Vegeta still doesn’t have this form and likely wont because it was the anime in which he made such a huge deal about not using that form (if they do turn around and give it to him that would be awful) so here it’ll serve more to explain the form and God Ki hopefully.

    It has always been the case that Blue and Base with God Ki can be sensed but God can’t, so there has always been a hint that there is a degree of holding in Ki higher than what they were doing. But the way the manga did this that you mentioned was not the more logical step. Goku was finally able to hold in all his Ki, that’s great, but the only reason such a HUGE power boost by just ‘holding in your Ki’ works is because they establish that it makes God Ki, it makes a new kind of Ki. If Goku already has God Ki to the point where it makes a new form (Blue), holding in all the rest of the Ki shouldn’t suddenly skyrocket Goku to fused Zamasu levels. Hopefully here it’s not such a stupid power boost based on what should be less and hopefully SSJG is in fact used here to inform God forms more and just be the natural way to hint and explain this and maybe used to inform/enable the new form.

    I still think SSJG is coming back because Goku is going to explain the ‘holding in the Ki’ plot point (as opposed to the manga that just does it) before using the state to go into Blue from it, to try and hold in Blue and master it like in the manga, but instead of that giving an unreasonable boost I’m hoping it’ll only allow him to take more Kaioken levels and that this new form is the result of that. It would be a much more natural way of building it up than the manga did, and it would be used for a far better thing than the manga.

    So yes, again, here’s hoping they don’t screw it up like the manga did.

  • benji delgado

    Ok, Vegeta didn’t lose only because he lost his stamina, Vegeta lost because he didn’t know Hit’s technique. Then it wasn’t until Goku was fighting in RED where ever Vegeta said this bastard is going to save his
    blue energy this late in the game.(13 pg15) Then when Goku was able to do well Beerus ask Whis why can’t Vegeta’s Blue form do this, and he explaines the stamina loss. Which is also explained in the anime doing so in rapid succession drains a lot of stamina and why we’re about to see RED in the next episode instead of Blue. Just to be carious how many times Goku turned BLUE and let’s also remember the tournament time limit 45 mins something like that.

    Again that doesn’t contradicts Toyble’s work when he was the first one to show us that they still had the RED form. Before you argued that he was contradicting the anime now he’s contradicting himself because of what Saiyan beyond god? Which a form that ONLY has RED’s physical strength/might with NO God ki or other special ability that RED has. That we see more in the anime then the manga so if Toyble is contradicting himself because of this form, then the anime must be contradicting itself then also.

    You know damn well that’s the reason he’s using it to save his stamina like in WHERE??? and Vegeta we haven’t seen that YET.

    ‘Goku was finally able to hold in all his Ki, that’s great, but the only reason such a HUGE power boost by just ‘holding in your Ki’ works is because they establish that it makes God Ki, it makes a new kind of Ki.”
    What the hell how did you even get to that conclusion that it was a HUGE power boost and making a new ki XD. No, my friend what really happen was the Mastered form of Blue let’s Goku fight at Blue’s MAX power without it leaking out. Go back and read Carefully 24 page 37 you are so wrong about the Mastered form it’s not even wroth arguing.

    “I still think SSJG is coming back because Goku is going to explain the ‘holding in the Ki’ plot point” It didn’t look that way to me his aura was raging in the preview. Yes let’s use a new form to add more new levels to Kaioken that’s “a much more natural way of building it up than the manga did” come on man stop it that was so dumb. Talking about screw it up after the Huge Ass pull that was in the Zamasu saga with Trunks smh.

  • Koibito888

    In the manga they entirely made it out as if Vegeta could have done the same thing without the sudden power drain. They almost make it out as if Goku’s strategy wasn’t going to work and he only combated Time Skip because he closed the power gap which Vegeta couldn’t do because of the suddenly introduced and way too specific clause on SSJB’s use. In the anime not once is it implied that Vegeta lost because he was too weak, it was entirely down to technique. The anime explains that Blue uses stamina but it does so in the way that every other form does, just that using it uses stamina, we know that, but the manga goes out of the way to blame rapid succession and specifically chop off 9/10th of his power to try and explain why he lost to Hit instead of just accepting that it came down to technique. No such huge power loss was implied in the anime and he lost because he couldn’t figure Hit out. It’s not a problem that Goku used SSJG to save stamina, you seem to be stuck on that part. The problem is how they introduced it, why Vegeta lost in the manga and that SSJG was the way to solve that vs the anime MAINLY because of power differences, also that they didn’t use the opportunity to explain God Ki or that form or anything (the manga still has given no explanation of God Ki unlike the anime). While the anime did no such nonsense with power, it used a known technique in a new but logical way (and a way fans anticipated forever anyway) that didn’t require paragraphs of new info to be quickly forced in to explain it.

    “Which a form that ONLY has RED’s physical strength/might with NO God ki”

    Special abilities aside, there should be no such thing as ‘God’s physical strength with NO God Ki’, their strength COMES from God Ki, using Blue is using God Ki, ‘Saiyan Beyond God’ is using God Ki, none of this power can logically exist without God Ki being used.

    And no, Toyble contradicts himself because he SHOWED Goku using SSJG’s power in full in base form. The anime didn’t show this, it merely showed them being stronger and using God Ki and didn’t have a specific showing of Goku literally surpassing SSJG in his base form. Toyble’s reason just made the most sense at the time but it is his work, so the manga contradicts this, the anime which did not have this example, did not.

    Vegeta still made a huge deal about not wanting to get the form and that the form was not the natural or ‘right way’ to do it, being his reason to go do it the normal way by just learning the technique (something they even reaffirm in the anime with Goku straight up saying Vegeta did it without the advantage of the ritual) hopefully we don’t see the anime go back on this.

    “What the hell how did you even get to that conclusion that it was a HUGE power boost”

    …. Dude it let Goku by himself fight Fused Zamasu. Just holding in all your Ki shouldn’t let that happen without making a new power. You seem confused, I said that because the anime establishes that that’s how God Ki is made, by holding in your Ki and raising your power. God Ki is nothing more than held in and raised higher Ki, it’s just a condensed and higher intensity state of regular Ki rather than being some mystical new Ki out there like Sage Chakra or something (something I was previously incorrect about). My point was that in making a new type of Ki (God Ki) such a huge power increase works logically. Blue Goku is already utilizing God Ki though, as such just holding in all of his Ki, without the plot point of it making a new, more powerful Ki, should only be letting him fight at max power, not many times the power he was at that point. It would raise his Ki a bit but not enough to suddenly be able to fight Fused Zamasu.

    “It didn’t look that way to me his aura was raging in the preview”

    So? SSJG’s aura was raging in the movie and he couldn’t be sensed, what’s your point.

    And yes, using preestablished logic to increase the power of a preestablished ability is very much a more natural way to introduce a new power, far more than anything that requires new info be inserted like in the manga. Kaioken was a known technique, the application of placing it on SSJ has always been a thing fans accepted as a possibility, we already knew Blue takes Ki control to do, all they did was use all of these known established things to make a new thing, it was self explanatory and felt natural. In the manga they brought back an old form that he showed Goku’s base surpassing prior, didn’t explain anything about God Ki or how it or the form works, and needed to explain paragraphs of new, too specific info right there to explain why what Goku did was working, it just made sense on it’s own.

    At least Trunks’ new form made way more sense for the huge power boost he got than Goku.

  • M29 RECORDS

    super saiyan god super saiyan 2
    he will have the red hair from the super saiyan god agaim

  • Hiruma Ignacio Youuichi

    Why does that sound like Trans-Am?