Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Buu (Gohan-Absorbed), Dabura Gameplay in DLC Pack 5 Trailer

A new trailer for Bandai Namco Entertainment and Dimps’ Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 is here! It features gameplay of the two up-coming playable characters in DLC Pack 5 – Buu (Gohan-Absorbed) and Dabura! Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 DLC Pack 5 will be released sometime this Fall on Nintendo Switch, PS4, Xbox One, and PC/Steam. The confirmed new items so far are two new playable characters (Dabura and Gohan-Absorbed Buu) and Zamasu as a master/mentor. If other items are announced for this DLC Pack, we hope to let you know right here on Saiyan Island!

Related

Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: New DLC Pack 5 Images, Nintendo Switch Launch Trailer
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Dabura, Buu (Gohan Absorbed), Master Zamasu DLC
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Nintendo Switch Sales Numbers Revealed (Japan)
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Switch Version is a Hit, DLC, Good News for FighterZ
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: TV vs Handheld Mode, File Size on Nintendo Switch
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: Nintendo Switch US/EU Release Date, Box Art, Screenshots
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: New Expansion DLC Announced
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: All DLC Pack 4 Parallel Quests with Ultimate Finish, Super/Ultimate Attacks
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: All Info on Free DLC 4 (including Dates), DLC 4 Story Mode Video

Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 is an action-fighting game with MMO and RPG elements in development by Dimps. It was published by Bandai Namco Entertainment for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One in North America on October 25 and in Europe on October 28. The PC version was released on October 28. The Nintendo Switch version was released September 7 in Japan and September 22 in Europe and North America.

  • BudokaiLimit

    Did they seriously give Buuhan a blue Kamehameha? From what I’ve seen this past few days they missed so much content that I am skeptical about their knowledge.

  • Otto Suwen

    This looks so tedious, like they didn’t even try making the trailer somewhat exciting.Idk.

  • Ryumancer

    Why not? Buutenks had a blue Kamehameha in the anime. And Buuhan’s ghosts all had a blue Kamehameha too.

  • Paul

    Even kid buus kamehameha was blue. Not sure where the pink ones even came from.

  • Basil Hawkins (The Mage)

    sad…people will never realize how raggedy games;like this are.

  • Ryumancer

    Likely when Fat Buu first mimicked SSJ3 Goku’s Kamehameha. Buu’s very first Kamehameha was pink.

  • Alpha Quinn

    These characters aren’t worth $9.99…… they aren’t knew or well needed characters and it’s sad that they will still profit greatly from these half arse cash grabs. I want the community to ask for more content, to want better Dbz games, but sadly the majority is fine with poop on a stick

  • hankosanko

    buuhan kame ame isnt done properly

  • Aizen Sousuke

    I care more about super buu than any of the previous DLC characters

  • Scott Baker✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘᶰᵗ

    dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra dabra

  • Scott Baker✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘᶰᵗ

    where did $9.99 come from? in the uk that equates to £7.63 and that is highly unlikely number

    if anything the DLC will cost £5.99 the equivilant of that is $7.84 less then your estimate but hey if the charge you guys $9.99 dollars and uk £5.99 then uk is getting the better deal so for the sake of things i think the cost your asking ofr is not correct.

    due to you only get two characters one master. and some clouthing your not geting story or dlc expanstion so that isnt right

  • Like, if they just waited a year, this game would have been a lot more appealing.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Hello, my name is Mugetsu and I’m Spoiler Addicted

  • Navok76

    Every DLC pack for this game costs 10$

  • Navok76

    I want Goku black to be shown in the FighterZ box art

  • Goku Black

    -Buu (Gohan Absorbed) shows up in PQ- Buu: NO ONE CAN STOP M- *Gets f*cked up by Goku Black*

  • S2J

    Stfu.

  • Navok76

    I really wanna laugh but i can’t…

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    FighterZ is coming out in 2018, this already is much less appealing.

  • Sakata Gintoki

    gintama dynasty warriors game

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Your opinion

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    The reception and sales of FighterZ will undoubtedly blow Xenoverse out of the water. Xenoverse 2 only sold half of what the first game did.

  • Ryumancer

    Pretty sure that’s wrong.

    masterherald.Com/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2-dominates-predecessor-video-game-in-terms-of-sales-ships-4-million-units-less-than-two-weeks-from-the-games-official-release-date/49414/

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Literally every other website that has reported the sales of Xenoverse 2 gives a figure of 1.4 million, which is less than half of the total sales of Xenoverse 1, the largest figure of which is 3.13 million.

    siliconera.Com/2016/11/02/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2-tops-1-4-million-worldwide-shipments/

    The website you linked cites Gematsu as a source but doesn’t include an actual source link. This is the only Gematsu article mentioning sales numbers for Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, which gives the aforementioned figure of 1.4 million copies.

    gematsu.Com/2016/11/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2-initial-shipments-top-1-4-million

  • Ryumancer

    That second link also mentioned that the sequel reached 1.4 mil in a much shorter time than the original game took to get to 1.5 mil.

    Not to mention the second game was only released on current gen while the original was on last gen, thus likely reaching more people, those that had current gen platforms as well.

    Also, the PC version of the second game was on Steam, which doesn’t disclose sales figures for some odd reason. So that’s a whole murky region of missing data.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    vgchartz.Com/game/122286/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2/
    vgchartz.Com/game/122285/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2/

    VGChartz is extremely reliable for sales data. Altogether the console version of the game (minus Switch) sold 1.48 million copies worldwide. We don’t need officially-reported Steam sales: we have Steamspy for that.

    steamspy.Com/app/454650

    300k copies on Steam. So altogether minus Switch the game sold 1.51 million copies worldwide. Still less than half of the original’s sales.

  • uhMayzedHD

    VGcharts is not accurate when it comes to sales figures they are close “at times” so what ever VG post anything take it with a grain of salt

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    It confirms everything every other website is saying so in this instance about Xenoverse 2 it’s a good source.

  • luis

    gintama rambo is actually ranbu i wonder if there gonna make a game from all the series from j stars

  • Goku Black

    Take your own advice. :3

  • Goku Black

    Sucks to be you.

  • Ryumancer

    On a phone right now so I can’t reference a link. Anyway, the sales figures on vgchartz alone doesn’t imply a 2 to 1 ratio of general sales between the first game and sequel respectively.

    The only thing that was alleged to be double was the steamcharts numbers for pc. And that site isn’t even official. And it admits flat out that it could be wrong.

    On consoles, the current ones anyway, they’re nearly even.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Going from official given figures (Xenoverse having sold 3.13 million copies, Xenoverse 2 having sold 1.4 million copies) that’s still less than half.

  • Ryumancer

    You haven’t referenced anything that said XV1’s number. You’ve only been saying that figure yourself.

    vgchartz and steamspy don’t show that big of a gap.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    gematsu.Com/2016/02/dragon-ball-xenoverse-shipments-top-3-13-million

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Bruh, Jiren is overpowered even by Dragon Ball standards.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Yeah what the hell

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Ultra Instinct huh?

  • Ryumancer

    Wait. You just said I referenced Gematsu which you disagreed with and now you use it? What?

  • Navok76

    So from what i see Jiren used Ren Technique (From HxH)…

  • hankosanko

    NO SSJ3

  • Navok76

    I really wish Vegeta gets his Limiet breaker form instead of Goku.. Fucck Toei and Tori..

  • Ryumancer

    Well, like Hit’s Time Skip, people need to keep up with the Saiyans somehow. :/

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Argument Ad Populum. Just because the reception is better and more people like it doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s entirely subjective. Played many a great game that got bad reviews, played many a bad game that got amazing reviews.
    Fighterz is just an upgraded exteme butoden for the 3DS. I’ll buy it and get it but the disappointing roster, lack of CAC, and a rehashed story of an earlier butoden game doesn’t impress me too much.

  • Ryumancer

    I’m with you. But one thing FighterZ does have is more “polish”.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Yeah, that was missing D:

  • Rafty

    so ultra instinct is basically the anime version of 100% blue… cool :).

    but now people are speculating if it’s really a transformation or just an higher stat of mind XD.

  • Basil Hawkins (The Mage)

    yea…. Im bout to start a Goku church.

  • Nagatem, Triangle Sama SI God

    Buuring trailer

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Amen

  • Oncle SamGaming

    I would bet it’s a higher state of mind since it’s compared to Mushin. And since Whis can do that naturally and Beerus has ALMOST mastered it and they don’t have special ” transformation traits ” … it’s not a transformation I guess. Just feels weird to see Goku’s end ” rounded up ” and ” silver ” like Black.

    Wait and see ^^

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Please actually read my responses. The link you supplied to “masterherald” cited Gematsu as a source but there’s no article on Gematsu that supports what it was saying about Xenoverse 2 selling 4 million copies. The only article on Gematsu mentioning sales figures for Xenoverse 2 is giving the same figure every other website was saying, which was 1.4 million.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Wow. Just wow. ‘nough said.

  • DBS made me shed a tear today…

  • Tsuna Sawada

    This is hands down the greatest moment of DBS

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Subjective views are very much a thing but there are objective facts about the games themselves. You can like something that’s bad, but that doesn’t make it not bad on an objective basis. I enjoy the movie Employee of the Month starring Dane Cook and call it one of my favorite movies, does that make it an objectively good movie? It doesn’t, it’s very much a by-the-numbers romantic comedy starring a dried-up comedian.

    I’m buying FighterZ because it looks to be an actually engaging fighting game for the DBZ property and tech-wise is one of the best games the property has had in years. Xenoverse 2 on a technical level, both gameplay and graphically, is worse than FighterZ when comparing the two as fighting games. I’ll take a small roster of characters that are unique and cater to specific play styles than a roster of 150 that’re more like 30 unique character types. CAC is a bonus feature to me (I’ll prefer a stronger base game with no CAC than a janky flawed base game with CAC) and the story is relatively inconsequential as I’ll play through it once and then spend most of my time in the online modes.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    So for the ones who still watch super how was the transformation?

  • KDG

    Let’s just say it was a nice change of pace from the normal Dragon Ball formula established in Z that we’ve grown accustomed to over the years. Rather than transforming and effortlessly overpowering his enemy, Goku got a whole new transformation just to lose in the very same episode he got his new transformation in. Admittedly though, it was an awesome and intense episode. Best two episodes of the entire tournament so far.

    As for the transformation itself, I got a real Hiei absorbing the Dragon of the Darkness Flame vibe from the entire encounter. Most powerful technique is thrown at enemy, enemy overpowers and throws technique back at fighter, fighter appears to be killed, reveals himself to be alive and stronger than ever in flash of light. All that was missing is Goku actually winning, and it would have been an exact reenactment from Yu Yu Hakusho’s Dark Tournament match between Hiei and Bui.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Ah

  • Ryumancer

    And you referenced another website that hardly shows a gap at all, which deflates your argument. Anything ELSE you want to repeat needlessly or did you get your point across?

  • Ryumancer

    I’m surprised Vermoud didn’t just send Toppo and Dyspo abroad to hunt Goku down and take him out as quickly as possible after Goku’s form went kaput. XD

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Alright, let’s use only Gematsu:

    gematsu.Com/2016/02/dragon-ball-xenoverse-shipments-top-3-13-million

    Published: 2/5/16, the same day of Xenoverse 1’s initial release in Japan (2/24 for NA, 2/27 for EU), showing worldwide sales for the game’s initial shipments. 3.13 million copies.

    gematsu.Com/2016/11/dragon-ball-xenoverse-2-initial-shipments-top-1-4-million

    Published: 11/2/2016, the same day of Xenoverse 2’s initial release in Japan (10/25 for NA, 10/28 for EU), showing worldwide sales for the game’s initial shipments. 1.4 million copies.

    Gematsu has no other figures posted for the sales of these two games. Bamco has not announced any other figures for either of them. Let’s inject simple math into this: 1.4m / 3.13m = 0.45 (rounded up). Xenoverse 2 sold 45% of the copies Xenoverse 1 did, which is a figure that can be concisely stated as: less than half.

  • Ryumancer

    Woo hoo, initial release numbers. They totally tell how much they’ve sold over the whole time they’ve been out. -_-

    So that’s another repeat. Woo hoo. Anything else?

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    I agree with that for sure

  • PurexedSolitude;

    I feel like this transformation is reminiscent of when Goku first attained Super Saiyan.

    It was something that was absolutely essential for victory, otherwise all that awaited was oblivion.

    Goku ends up losing because the form was only temporary. (similar to the first time SSG was used) but this duration was much smaller than that.

    I think Goku may just be able to regain the form on the spur of the moment, like when he absorbed SSG into his base.

    I digress, the form is great, powerful, and overall cool as hell.

  • Ryumancer

    Of course that would come natural for games that have smaller rosters and no CAC included.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Initial sales figures are very much something that matter to a game and for the companies themselves they dictate whether or not the game has done well or has failed. That’s not say Xenoverse 2 has failed because 1.4 million copies is still success by all means, but it’s done significantly worse than its predecessor mostly due to the lack of innovation and change in the game’s base formula.

    You’ve seen fit to plant yourself firmly in a position of disingenuous disagreement almost specifically for the purpose of arguing so I’m ending the discussion here.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Except what one person says is good is not fact, movies, books, etc are entirely subjective and based on a persons taste. You are taking your opinion and saying it’s fact which it’s not. Fighterz is subjectively better than Xenoverse 2. There is no objective fact, and you are talking about two entirely different types of games here. Not to mention you got caught lying and making up stuff in another comment on here about the sales, so there’s no reason to trust anything you say.

    As I said we’ve had plenty of those before and Fighterz was already done on the 3DS and on a fanmade game for the PC a long time ago. In fact a lot of the move sets are taken from that PC game. Again your opinion it’s not fact. I don’t care about graphics lol, that is inconsequintial as there have been a flood of 8bit and other low level graphic games that do better than some of the most beautiful graphics so…. Gameplay again depends on what your prefrence is to me it doesn’t matter I’m not some game elitist snob like you so.

    I’ll take a lot of characters over a limited amount as it gets boring having to play with just the same few every single time.

    Lol Xenoverse wasn’t flawed, I think you have too high of standards. The story is not inconsequential at all. That’s what makes some people interested. Remember how bad Battle of Z did, people complained at the messy lack of story. It had a “story” but it wasn’t very good and to me online is not really my thing who cares what other people around the world do. Go get Call of Duty if you wanna play with others lol.

    You are merely trying to pass off your opinon as fact when it’s entirely an opinion about everything except the graphics. Otherwise it’s just your take on it. Then as I said before graphics are not that important anymore and is just a superficial thing people cling to because they think it makes things better.

  • Ryumancer

    That last paragraph is what you should’ve done in the first place. And FighterZ looks like it is going to hit it big and it looks better polished. But saying CAC isn’t that appealing for a DBZ game with an okay combat system is just beyond foolish.

  • KDG

    He probably figured that form clearly wasn’t enough to beat Jiren anyway, so he’s no real threat anymore. Jiren still managed to take Goku down without his full power. In Vermoud’s mind, he probably figures this tournament is all but won already, as Jiren is the only fighter God of Destruction-tier. Slightly higher even.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    “Not to mention you got caught lying and making up stuff in another comment on here about the sales, so there’s no reason to trust anything you say.”

    Actually read the exchange. @ryumancer:disqus was the one who lied about the sales of Xenoverse 2 and used a link from the one website on the internet that was reporting 4 million sales from Xenoverse 2. Masterherald cited Gematsu as its source even though the only article on Gematsu addressing the sales figures for Xenoverse 2 is 1.4 million, and every other site that reported sales figures used the same number.

    “Lol Xenoverse wasn’t flawed, I think you have too high of standards.”

    Xenoverse even from the first game is very flawed as a fighting game. 3D fighting games are subject larger amounts of jank and issues than 2D fighters are because they have to work with additional planes in space. Xenoverse is the only fighting game I’ve ever played where combos can be dropped because I’m attacking someone from a poor angle, specifically if I’m on a bad part of the map geometry. Its hitboxes are monumentally terrible, it has a lot of balance issues (there are way too many ways to set up infinite combos and quite a number of ultimates are broken), and they did very little to add on to the base game formula established by the first one.

    “Remember how bad Battle of Z did, people complained at the messy lack of story.”

    Battle of Z did poorly because its gameplay was terrible and it was a lobotomized version of Zenkai Battle Royale with features that barely worked half the time they were supposed to and PS2 graphics. It also had poor amounts of offline content available in the game.

  • I find it funny you refuse to admit you’re wrong.

  • Koibito888

    It was amazing, it was exactly what I wanted which was for it to NOT be him absorbing Spirit Bomb. He did so, but they even made it a point to say ‘yeah, absorbing the Spirit Bomb might give him a tiny boost but it’s not responsible for this huge Jiren-gap-closing boost’.

  • Koibito888

    Technically it’s both. I don’t know if people are understanding that ‘Ultra Instinct’ – the technique Goku is using to react and move faster, and this huge power boost allowing him to catch up to Jiren are two separate power ups.

    The Spirit Bomb put enough pressure on his energy to ‘break into his potential’ – it was pretty much like coal to diamond logic the pressure and condensing his energy let him produce an even higher energy (funny how this is similar to the entire concept of God Ki which the anime explains is the product of condensing Ki, so yes, very like to be exactly the anime version of 100% Blue, in fact literally holding in all his Ki to make 100% God Ki). This is a transformation or new physical state.

    Ultra Instinct alone is only letting Goku move and react faster.

    One’s giving him power (and likely an even amount of speed comparably) while the other is giving him just more speed on top of it. Goku did both of these things at the same time.

  • Koibito888

    I’m so happy with the new form, I called it, I called that it would not be a power up because of the Spirit Bomb. Yes it was the catalyst for it, but the power up itself was literally credited to the power of the Spirit Bomb putting enough pressure on Goku’s own energy – while specifically stating the actual power of the absorbed Spirit Bomb did little for it. Putting pressure on Goku’s energy until it broke into deep down potential.

    God Ki is literally condensed energy, Goku powered up to the level of Gods by the Spirit Bomb condensing his energy.

    Ultra Instinct is a separate technique he did at the same time to move even faster, but that power up separately had to be because of that.

    In any case, no Spirit Bomb form, no combination of Blue and God, no Blue absorbed into base form, none of the goofy theories that would have been bad to do, it all made sense and fit perfectly all without overexplaining it like the manga, I’m so freaking relieved and love what they did.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    The presentation was excellent. That blurry frame lag on Goku’s movements when he was going fast reminded me a lot of Musou Tensei from Fist of the North Star.

  • Saiyan Soul

    It is though, Fighterz is objectively a better fighting game than Xenoverse is and ever could be, let’s compare it shall we? considering Xenoverse does pass and has a label of being a “fighitng game/mmo”, let’s focus on the fighting part since Fighterz and Xenoverse share that same tag and genre, broken skills, infinite combos, one button combos, a poor netcode that is just laughable for something that actually considered an MMO, now take Fighterz, tight combos, no broken skills or tech’s, no infinites, an amazing netcode that even lets the highest of connections play with the lowest connections, no clones, a diverse roster etc etc
    So yes, Fighterz is objectively a better fighting game than Xenoverse. it’s not subjective because Xenoverse is billing itself as a “fighting game” as well with the MMO elements tacked onto it so it’s not catering to one genre, it’s catering to two, fighting and RPG/MMO. It fails in both categories an doesn’t pass as a “good game” in either because the features it exhibhits aren’t up to the standard of a fighter or a decent MMO of todays age.

    There was no fanmade game of DB on PC except for Hyper DragonBall Z, this is barring the numerous flash games made by fans as well. Not true again, most of the movesets are from Butouden but they’ve been built on and heavily modified. That statement about you disliking graphics doesn’t hold true in this day and age since we’ve come a long way from sprites, take MvC infinite for example, it was completely trashed on for having bad graphics but the gameplay is solid and fun.

    Xenoverse is flawed, both as a fighting game and an MMO, it isn’t about having high standards, it’s about having your money’s worth, XV1 was well worth it because it built on everything Ultimate tenkaichi and BoZ had failed on, XV2? it isn’t worth it at all since it was completely rushed on the production standpoint. People didn’t complain about the lack of story, people complained about how we were promised a great manner of what if scenarios and it didn’t deliver at all in BoZ. That’s great and all for you but online is essential for any game that’s billing itself as an mmo which Xenoverse which I might add is.

  • NaSPOOKY! >:P

    Wouldn’t need DLC if we just had RB3

  • NaSPOOKY! >:P

    sOUL IS A BULLY

  • Koibito888

    Yeah. I adored that first step, where in just one step in freaking Goku first person view it just goes white and he’s at Jiren’s face like holy hell that was probably my favorite moment presentation wise.

  • Koibito888

    The ‘Ultra Instinct’ state is a technique and specifically lets Goku move and react faster. It has nothing to do with his power increase which was stated to be the product of Goku’s energy being pressured to a point of potential tapping. Two different powerups with one being a physical form/powerup, the other being a state of mind.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Goku is going to get the new form down during the tournament before they face off one last time.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Yeah, he’ll learn to use it during the tournament and face off with Jiren one last time.

  • dbz

    when is dlc pack 5 coming out

  • Trainwreck

    I imagine you’ll get a more reliable answer if you wait a few days or weeks before asking that question.

    A bunch of overzealous people will be acting fanatically and irrationally right about now, having succumbed to hype and all of that good stuff. Once the dust settles down a bit and we have a moment of calm within the community, then more people will start analyzing the pros and cons in a more objective manner and you’ll get a clearer answer to that question.

  • KDG

    He’s going to need something more than that form. While he made Jiren put more effort into fighting him, it wasn’t enough to make Jiren use his full power.

  • KDG

    Goku ended up losing because it wasn’t enough. If you re-watch episode 110, Jiren still wasn’t fighting at full power during Goku’s temporary form. Goku on the other hand was fighting at the highest level he had ever been. While it was enough to slightly push Jiren back, it was pretty clear that there was still a significant gap in their power. Goku impressed and even scared the gods, and that’s great. Yet he didn’t even change Jiren’s demeanor a little.

  • Ryumancer

    Says the person that can’t spell “spook” correctly. F*ck off.

  • Ryumancer

    I already admitted FighterZ will hit it big, dumbass. I don’t need to admit anything else.

  • Ryumancer

    I didn’t lie about jack effing crap. I didn’t think it would be a lacked source. That wasn’t intentional.

  • dbz

    goku new transformation was amazing!!

  • I’m sorry,but are you claiming that the writing in shows/movies/books has absolutely no objectivity? because that is so incorrect.
    There are things in shows and such that can be factually considered bad, regardless of your opinion on the matter. Let’s look at Dragon Ball Super for example, the writing for that show is genuinely bad, there is no debate against that. They constantly bring up new forms and power-buffs without any reasonable explanation, they constantly contradict the pre-existing lore of their own writing, and the whole story is extremely predictable. These are all objectively bad things in a show’s writing. Now Dragon Ball Super is (for whatever reason) liked a lot, but that doesn’t mean that the show is good.

  • S2J

    How about going outside some time you fat f**k

  • S2J

    Didn’t they ever tell you to use multiple sources when you were in school? Goodness.

  • S2J

    How do you not see what he’s doing?

  • S2J

    I come on this site at least once a month and I see Ryumancer being a f**king idiot every single time in the comments.

  • Ryumancer

    One of his sources was counter-productive to his argument so he went down to one source later in the argument.

    So using multiple sources wasn’t really all that great in that scenario. -_-

  • Ryumancer

    Being a hypocritical oaf by calling someone a retard when he can’t even spell correctly? Nah, I saw that from a mile away. 😉

  • Ryumancer

    Sure, be an aggressive jizzbag. Be my guest.

  • Ryumancer

    Would that even be legal? lol

  • Ryumancer

    @Koibito888:disqus
    So if someone tried to make a cross-timeline scale, where do you think Omega Shenron would be in terms of power compared to, say, Jiren? I’d say it’s not even a contest but you always see some people on the net saying otherwise, which I never get. What’s your take?

  • Ryumancer

    Hi, Mugetsu. lol

    But in all seriousness, spoilers don’t really ruin it for me. Knowing what happens and then seeing exactly how foretold events unfold as they actually happen are two completely different things.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    True I thought my time was right but maybe not

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Oh okay, well I heard ppl say8ng it’s like Luffy gear

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Wait d8dnt they say he was able to go into that form b4, or at least stated Goku discovered a new form. If so it can’t be temporary

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Rick vs any 9f tge z fighters, how do you think that would end up?

  • Elliott Blair

    Rick would find a way to beat any of them he is God.

  • ThePrinceVegeta( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    XV2 is dead, FighterZ gonna blow this game to the grave.
    My thoughts on DBS? Amazing, imo best two episodes so far. I hope no one thinks that animation is gonna last lmao, its gonna go right back to normal. They had way more time to prepare for these two episodes than before.

  • Basil Hawkins (The Mage)

    its worth it

  • Koibito888

    Luffy which gear? Cuz that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense

  • Ryumancer

    I guess. Goku’s pretty godly now. XD

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    You deliberately picked the source that supported your argument without fact checking. I don’t know how you could’ve Googled “Xenoverse 2 sales” and then scrolled to the bottom of the first page to use Masterherald as a source when there was at least three other websites above it that all said something different. You saw the first thing that supported your position and threw it around as though it had any weight in the discussion.

  • Videl Gamer Girl

    They should have made it so Super Buu’s Ghosts can shoot little Kamehamehas and Masenkos.

  • Sakata Gintoki

    Or shoot out little yamchas

  • Ryumancer

    That sounds…kinda gross. :/

  • Ryumancer

    Rick who?

  • Ryumancer

    What do you mean? I’ve seen people call you idiot several times.

  • Sakata Gintoki

    or the best thing to ever exist its matter of perspective

  • Ryumancer

    lol

  • Ryumancer

    As long as it isn’t little Arales. That would be creepy as f*ck. Then Vegito would’ve lost. XD

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    His username is normally Aalon. He’s going with Sspooklon for October.

  • PurexedSolitude;

    The form is the representation of what Whis was talking about before.

    To move your body without having to think about it, it was foreshadowed a while ago but nothing was concrete until now.

    Goku had to break through his limits some way, we just didn’t know how he was going to be able to do that.

    The spirit bomb was apparently the key to this new ability.

    In short, since the spirit bomb was the catalyst, it couldn’t last because it’s just a condensed sphere of energy that will dissipate after a certain amount of time.

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Yes, but you have to remember that Goku was still evolving during the battle.

    While it may not have been enough at that specific moment, Goku was still fighting Jiren calm and collected right up til the end when he noticed the power withering.

    If Goku can maintain the form, he’ll beat Jiren.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Still wasn’t it foreshadow Goku already had the form b4?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Sanchez

  • Anthony_weaver86

    The one where h8s body heats up to the point it generates his own steam

  • NinetalesCommander

    “XV2 is dead, FighterZ gonna blow this game to the grave.”

    You do realize the demographic for Dragonball Xenoverse 2 is pretty much completely separate from the demographic for Dragonball FighterZ right?
    Dragonball FighterZ is a competitive fighting game with Dragonball Z Characters, Dragonball Xenoverse 2 is a game designed to make players feel like they are apart of the over-the-top action from the show.
    Unless they find both to be enjoyable like myself, competitive fighting game players have NEVER cared about games like DBX2 and the same goes for the opposite.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I agree lol

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Well, I think Goku did say”I’ll show you what it’s like when I surpass my limits” or something like that.

    But I’m not sure if it meant this because Goku got this new power by accident.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Hm okay

  • Koibito888

    No it wasn’t really like that at all. Like… Yeah not in how it’s achieved, how it works, what came of it, how it looks, like there’s nothing really similar between the two. Like… You could say they both generated heat to a degree but like that’s kinda the focus of Luffy’s form while they kinda just mentioned Goku’s form ‘has a heat to it’, but other than that there really are no similarities.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Nah. The form is enough. He just doesn’t know how to control his new form, yet. He still isn’t sure what happened himself. Once he has control, I’m sure the outcome will be different. They didn’t hype a new form just to tell us it ain’t enough and it was only useful for those two episodes. lol

  • Koibito888

    Sorry I took forever I didn’t get the notification lol

    Depends on what we’re talking, but probably less anyway. If we’re talking actual feats GT is weak, two SSJ4’s struggle with the weight of a building, nothing hints at anything being really above planet level destructive capacity and it’s a mess of screwed up limits shown that puts characters stupidly weak.

    Lore wise SSJ4 is only 10x SSJ1 making it 500x base while SSJ3 is 400x base. This makes SSJ4 basically 20% stronger from SSJ3 or something, it’s still 100 more base Goku’s worth of power but compared to SSJ3 which is already 400 base Gokus so to speak, another 100 would be a 4th of SSJ3’s power added onto it given that it doesn’t actually multiply off SSJ3, just SSJ1. Pretty sure God is definitely stronger than just 20% stronger than SSJ3 (and thats the understatement of the century). SSJ4 Gogeta is merely double this power and he ruins Omega with the least effort.

    Add Blue being 50x this God form that is WAY more than 20% stronger than SSJ3 (and at a higher power later on than when he first got God), Kaioken up to multiplying that by 20 does nothing to Jiren, Goku’s new form catches up to Jiren which is a stupidly huge gap and then EVEN STILL he can’t actually do anything to Jiren who at most was putting forth effort – nowhere near him trying fully.

    So not only is it no contest but Jiren is just unimaginably stronger than Omega like he wouldn’t even be able to walk up to him. Omega probably still couldn’t reach any major player from Super really.

  • Koibito888

    This is a new base form for Goku. First off it’s doubtful that aura will be there after Goku gets a handle on it, either because he’ll be able to do it without spirit bomb or because he’ll have better control over it. At best Goku will change to silver eyes. Ultra Instinct is just a technique, the powerup Goku got was just a base form increase and once he learns to do it that should be constant and will be less of a form.

    This doesn’t make it useless though because the fact that this is just base form means that there still has to be an SSJ/Blue version of this form. Goku getting a handle on it giving him a huge power boost from where we already saw wouldn’t make any sense, yes it should increase the power a bit but at best the point will be consistent use not a huge boost from the same form. It makes less sense when you figure that he will be stacking Blue on this later.

    It’s possible Goku will beat Jiren not by just learning the form better and boom suddenly Goku can trump Jiren, and that they’ll take the more reasonable route of Goku learning it better meaning he can go SSJ from this point and beat Jiren because he’d obviously be 50x stronger than he just was.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    “With all of the power of the Shadow Dragons I have become Omega Shenron!”

    “Get lost.”

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Ah

  • Koibito888

    So like a lotta people seem to either be misunderstanding or short handing Goku’s new form and not getting that it’s actually two things, that Ultra Instinct – the thing where you specifically are faster because of super reaction time, and the huge power boost Goku received from the Spirit Bomb pressuring his energy to a point are two separate unrelated things. I feel like this is gonna become a DBZ stereotype, one of those things the fanbase forgets/doesn’t understand and it slowly becomes a thing based on that.

    Bet you, XV3 is gonna give ‘Ultra Instinct’ to CaC (or at least Goku) and it’s gonna imply the character gets the huge power boost and aura too and no one’s going to pick up on it.

    And a while from now if you ask people what ‘Ultra Instinct’ is, they’ll tell you that they are doing the thing that Whis said, fighting without thinking, and that not only does it make your reactions unbelievably fast granting a huge speed boost, that it also somehow powers you up to Jiren levels and those people will be wrong about it I’m calling it now lol

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    No one knows if it’s a base form. Now more than half of what you said with you assuming it was a base form means nothing, so I’ll ignore that. Yes, Ultra Instinct seems to be a technique. Obviously the form isn’t useless, either. Yeah, not sure the aura will be the same, but everything else, probably, will be. Also, I highly doubt it’s a “base form”, but it could be. Doubtful, but I ain’t gonna say for sure. No actual facts on this until more episodes come out.

  • Ryumancer

    You didn’t take that long. No biggie.

    I thought in terms of lore, SSJ4 was 10x that of SSJ3, not SSJ1. :/

    Also, are you sure the gap between SSJG and SSJB is 50x? I know it’s a “Super Saiyan version of a Super Saiyan God”, but does that multiplier crossover into the god forms?

    Was the gap between Omega and SSJ4 Gogeta ever really explained? I thought it was more than double.

    But the rest I agree with you on. I was sure SSJB for example was much stronger than SSJ4, especially with the Kaioken stack on top of it.

  • Ryumancer

    Oh. In terms of thought speed, any Z Fighter would whoop his a$$. There’s also only so many gadgets Rick could carry.

    Though one could argue Rick might have ToonForce on his side so that would give him the advantage. Hard to say. :/

  • Ryumancer

    Why does he like using 2 of the same letter at the beginning of his name?

    Anyway you seemingly humiliated me so are we cool? lol

  • Ryumancer

    Yeah hopefully they explain Ultra Instinct a bit more in the future.

  • Ryumancer

    I’m usually into DBZ games for story or cinematic effect. Xenoverse had story and CAC. Raging Blast 2 had no story but all the moves had a bit of cinematic flare to it. I’ll wait and see what FighterZ’s story looks like before I even think about getting it.

    But yeah, normally what you said has merit. I’m not the type to play competitive fighting games.

  • Ryumancer

    Either that or Jiren would pull a “Kenshiro” and say “You’re already dead”.

    Actually, I’d say Jiren and Kenshiro have a few things in common.

  • Ryumancer

    That was pretty cool. I was like “What the hell?”. Had to have been Toppo’s and Dyspo’s reactions as well.

    I’d say a similarly big surprise was that Jiren saw that coming. lol

  • Koibito888

    No but it is the most likely and logical case, it has to be a base form. The energy was only Goku’s potential, only the result of Goku’s ki being pressured, Whis was rather specific about this. The power was his own and with as little change as possible and caused by pressuring his ki and unlocking his potential and all of that, that literally is base power. Ultra Instinct being a technique is just that and it’s just a speed/reaction boost, a huge one but that’s what it is, at best it could be responsible for the eyes going silver and will be more like a technique but the powerup is likely something he’ll learn to just be.

    Honestly I doubt the aura will be the same simply because of animation, this aura was too detailed and well animated to be a consistent thing, and not to mention it very much looked like the Spirit Bomb. So either Goku will get a more basic aura and even now it’s already white, it’d be barely distinguishable from his base aura anyway if it was any less detailed, or no different aura/no aura because it’s possible that aura was caused by the spirit bomb and not the power up.

    Even still, just like Whis was saying from the start that they needed to fight without thinking, it’s also been pushed from the start that Goku and Vegeta need to learn to hold in all of their Ki to increase their base power. Whether or not this form has anything to do with that, that’s likely going to happen same as moving without thinking. Logically speaking Goku is going to have to receive a base form boost sooner or later and what else would it be than this new form?

    Honestly at best I see Goku getting Ultra Instinct as a power up to move faster, it’ll be treated like a Kaioken type technique that works like a transformation and it’ll just make him go silver eyed, and then as for the power Goku will just be able to go full power base form to be this strong, and he’s just gonna go SSJ/Blue on top of it.

  • Koibito888

    Nope it’s SSJ1. Golden Oozaru is SSJ1 Oozaru and SSJ4 was never hinted at or stated to be any stronger than the Oozaru, just able to use that same power in control. It’s SSJ1 x10.

    SSJ being the catalyst for the difference between God and Blue means it has to be multiplying it by 50 and the fact that going from SSJG is no different it means Blue has always been that much stronger than God. So if it’s indeed multiplying his power by 50 it means Blue is consistently 50x SSJG and with SSJ being the only difference it has to be 50.

    No I didn’t mean Gogeta was double Omega I meant Gogeta was double SSJ4 Goku because it was the Fusion Dance.

    Yeah Blue has to be stronger than 4 even being the most generous in 4’s favor, let alone Kaioken, let alone x10 and 20, let alone this new form, let alone Jiren lol.

  • Koibito888

    Lol if Goku masters this and like he just switches it on, all it’s gonna give him is silver eyes. Goku is literally gonna look like he’s activating an eye power. What a time to be alive lol

  • Yomi

    That’s what I was thinking, the heat/aura means it’s imperfect.
    Then he’ll just get his dojutsu and shyz.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    That would be a very f7nny and unique battle and seeing as he is aware of his existence as a cartoon he m9st likely has an edge

  • KDG

    He was still evolving during the battle, yes. But Jiren wasn’t trying any harder than when Goku first emerged with his new power. There is still a fairly significant power gap.

  • Ryumancer

    True. But there’s a difference between knowing you’re a fictional character and still getting pwned time to time (like Deadpool), and being naive and completely unaware of the purpose of your own existence and are able to match anyone if the plot demands it (like Arale).

  • Ryumancer

    I dunno. That just seems something that would be debated intensely. But I won’t do it. And I don’t quite disagree with you enough to do so. lol

    That could make sense. Though that makes what Vegeta was able to do in the manga quite a bit more difficult though. Being an SSJG and able to flash SSJB at certain moments.

    Since when did the Metamoran Fusion only double a fusee’s power? If that were true, Goten and Trunks would’ve been unable to match Buu.

    Heh! Mos def!

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Deadpool did beat Thanos by having cap universe powers aka plot

  • Ryumancer

    That would be true. But Deadpool has been picked apart countless other times, even by Squirrel Girl of all people.

    Speaking of which, I’m waiting for that Saitama/Squirrel Girl Death Battle, ScrewAttack! >:(

    LMAO

  • Anthony_weaver86

    …..never liked her seeing as she is butt ugly

  • Only that you were wrong.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    TLDR. Again all your opinion

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Again that is your opinion. I do not find the writing to be that bad. Lower your standards. Just because you think it’s bad does not make it so. Learn what an opinion is. Take off your nostalgia glasses

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Play more fighting games plenty where they can be dropped. They tried to incorporate the feel to the series in the game. Something a 2d fighter can never do. Sounds to me like you’re a sore loser who could.never win on Xenoverse and hopes he’ll do better on fighterz. What’s your excuse going to be this time when you suck just as bad?

  • Saiyan Soul

    How can you claim it’s my opinion when all you went is “TL:DR”? that basically means you didn’t read anything yet you claim it’s an opinion.

    I mean where’s the logic in that? lel.

  • KDG

    I’m sure the form will be making a return and isn’t just a two-episode thing, of course. There’s just still a large power gap between Goku and Jiren. There should be more to bridging that gap than simply getting used to his new form within a half hour.

  • No, it’s not my opinion. It’s factually bad writing to do those things I listed. My opinion is that I don’t like it, like yours is that you like it, but regardless of that the writing for the show is bad. It’s not a debatable subject, it’s objectively bad.
    You can like something that’s bad, but that doesn’t make it good, just like not liking something that’s good doesn’t makes it bad.

    By the way, “Take off your nostalgia glasses”, what?

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    “You don’t like this game so that just means you suck at it!”

    10/10 argument. We’re done here.

  • Ryumancer

    Well yeah, he’s a douchebag.

  • Ryumancer

    And I don’t really believe I am. So f*ck off. 😉

  • Ryumancer

    But were you agreeing with him that I was an idiot? *Looks at you carefully* lol

  • Ryumancer

    Is that sarcasm? That’s kind of a serious question considering it’s quite hard to read sarcasm in text. XD

  • Ryumancer

    Liger’s been gone (THANK GOD) for several months now. And is that rule even actually listened to?

  • Tsuna Sawada

    Remember when this place was lively, good times

  • Ryumancer

    Oh. I didn’t even know that was an actual rule, or at least a popular guideline.

    Alright. Fair enough.

    So how’s Linger doing?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Wait did you guys sa8d Goku use the spirit bomb on the alien dude? If so why would he use a move that is only meant for Evil hearted ppl

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    It’s still his ultimate move.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Muten Roshi: The Whole World of void is shaking ( World of Void is infinite and Goku didn’t even power up )

    Piccolo and Android 17:

    Every Punch gets faster and harder.

    For me Ultimate Instinct is the best form because he keeps growing while he’s fighting. That’s insane. Think about it. The Form/Technique let’s you reach the level of your opponent, probably even overcome him. It was just a question of time that Goku reaches Jiren with Ultimate Instinct. That’s also why the gods are shocked. If Goku could have hold Ultimate Instinct for a longer time, he would have stomped Jiren. They will have a rematch. And next time Goku will be the winner

  • Even if Jiren was evil, he could still push it back. Being pure of heart makes it easier to deflect.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Maybe the effect got retconned ¯_(ツ)_/¯ why is no one mentioning that.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    With his shear aura ffs. I call hacks

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    You couldn’t retcon that and they kept in the bit about Goku not being able to form the Spirit Bomb in Super Saiyan because maliciousness creeps into his heart. Like Gen said, being pure of heart makes it easier to deflect.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Now that you’ve mentioned it, Krillin said that

  • Not really? They’re both Dragon Ball games that cater to the fan base and the respective genre the game caters to. You aren’t really dealing with a different fan base when your dealing with the same franchise.

  • Koibito888

    It really can’t be debated with no info, we have to take the base idea we were given. We got Goku going SSJ oozaru which is 500x base form, he goes SSJ4 and no further increase is noted merely that it’s controlled.

    I don’t think it makes it any more difficult for Vegeta, in either case he’s just flashing on SSJ. On that note I’m so happy with how the anime did that. Don’t need to give Vegeta SSJG which is dumb, and Vegeta’s strategy involving trying to take Black off guard while saving energy made him using SSJG make no sense. The anime did that so much better.

    It’s always worked that way, Potara multiplies the users’ power together, Dance adds them. There may be a small boost for the relationship of the fusees implied (like the whole ‘rivals are best’ line but thats iffy) but no way it multiplies any more. Remember though, Goten and Trunks COULDN’T match Buu, you remember how bad Base Gotenks got stomped by even fat Buu? It took SSJ3, it took 400x Goten and Trunks combined to be able to match Buu so you’re right, just adding them wouldn’t be able to match Buu and it definitely wasn’t.

  • Sakata Gintoki

    Jiren had to be one mean b*tch with an ass like that

  • Koibito888

    See like those are the kind of rumors we need to nip in the bud so that they don’t start.

    Like there’s no way a power increase and what Ultra Instinct does is responsible for Goku getting stronger as he fought. It was very obvious that Goku’s growth while fighting was due to Goku’s own ability to learn while he fights and only hints that Goku has not fully tapped into his power and that more is coming because Goku is learning the form fast, not because the form grants you increasing power.

    And again calling Ultimate Instinct anything other than a speed and reaction boost is incorrect. Like lets say for instance the spirit bomb thing didn’t happen and Goku ONLY went unconscious and got the silver eyes then he would receive no power increase and it would only be a speed increase and THAT is Ultimate Instinct.

    Goku closing the power gap between him and Jiren and being able to do damage, this is entirely because of the Spirit Bomb pressuring his Ki until it reached a new height of power, this is something separate from Ultra Instinct and Goku is doing both.

    It’d be really neat if games that use it for CaC or anyone that’s not Goku focuses entirely on the speed boost and doesn’t imply the power. It would be really cool if as a fanbase we could keep this info accurate and that it doesn’t get misunderstood like I said would happen in my first post.

  • Linger of the spook

    I’m doing great

  • Koibito888

    Honestly I think the Spirit Bomb might be entirely responsible for the aura and heat and so when he reaches this power level on his own it’s going to be only a base form power up with no huge change and just be his new base power.

    I speculate that what the Spirit Bomb did was make Goku’s energy do what they’ve been trying to do – hold it all in. God Ki was said to be made by holding in all your Ki and raising it, it’s literally compressed Ki and what did the Spirit Bomb do? Literally compress his Ki. No one could even sense him for a sec they thought he was gone. I think that the base power is going to be the result of Goku holding in all Ki, it’ll be the base form of what the manga did with Blue where Goku held in all his Ki and it gave a huge boost.

    I mean it’d make poetic sense if this new state was the result of the two main things Whis was teaching Goku and Vegeta – holding in all your Ki AND fighting without thinking. Both things are the only two lessons he hammered into them so with the strength coming from his energy being compressed and one of the two lessons (fighting without thinking) happening at the same time, why wouldn’t the strength come from the OTHER lesson Whis was teaching?

    So like I think without Spirit Bomb he wont have the heat and aura let alone when he masters it and there’s even less change than not having an aura – it’ll just be Goku’s base power and like both you and I said, he’ll just flash the eyes doujutsu style lol.

    You’re right about Jiren, I think maybe he knows Ultra Instinct or something.

  • KDG

    Jiren is a good guy in his universe, but that does not necessarily make him pure of heart. Vegeta is a good guy and he’s far from pure, as is Roshi, Tien, and even Krillin. Jiren could easily have been a villain turned good guy by Toppo, making him susceptible to the Spirit Bomb.

  • Ryumancer

    Probably true.

    Yeah the manga really went a stupid route with that one. Same with Goku’s fight with Hit. The Kaioken SSJB combo made more sense.

    Yeah but Goku himself was stronger than Goten and Trunks combined and he couldn’t match Super Buu either. I don’t think the dance only adds them. I just don’t think merely doubling a power level and lessening the number of opponents your enemy would fight would be a good idea or concept. I gotta look up info on the Fusion Dance sometime.

  • Ryumancer

    That was creepy. lol

    Howdy. You’re sure that you and Gent aren’t the same person? LMAO

  • Koibito888

    Probably

    Yeah like the manga’s mistake was making one of the big points to be Vegeta trying to hide his power, part of the whole point was Vegeta looked like he was in SSJG so that when he struck with the power and speed of Blue it would look like his SSJG state was so much stronger. This means the only power that mattered in the fight was Blue, not SSJG, so Vegeta’s strategy to make a low form look strong and conserve energy would have worked better from base form so Vegeta never needed to have SSJG and he’s a more badass character without it anyway so the whole thing was dumb. While the anime did it better by making Goku do it (so no sudden phoning in of SSJG on anyone else) but also by making hiding his power not a factor at all and instead stating Goku needed to be stronger than SSJ so he needed SSJG but he needed to conserve so flashing into Blue made sense and was natural. And yeah like you said Kaioken on Blue just made more sense and it was better to wait longer to reveal Goku still could use SSJG and that it still made him stronger (meaning he still hasn’t reached SSJG power in base form so it’s still coming and this new form could be it).

    To your edit, it’s okay I know you’re not specifically doubting me or anything lol. I do know why you’re thinking that though, double doesn’t sound like a lot because SSJ is x50 and Kaioken goes up to 20 and multipliers are used in big chunks sometimes in DBZ, so it really is easy for most fans to mistake this but ya got to remember just how big double is.

    Take Cell Saga. SSJ1 Goku and regular Perfect Cell were evenly matched, Goku could not beat him but Cell couldn’t necessarily beat Goku either. SSJ1 Gohan was weaker than SSJ1 Goku and ergo weaker than Cell. When Gohan goes SSJ2 we now know that was double his power. If Gohan was equal to Cell in SSJ1 he’d be double Cell’s power in SSJ2 but considering 1 was weaker, it means 2 wasn’t even double Cell’s strength. SSJ2 Gohan was at most only almost double, literally a matter of a percentage better, but look at just how much it overwhelmed him. Not even double someone’s strength is enough to completely humiliate an opponent. Double is a lot of power, it means a lot more in DBZ than people give it credit for. So when you get to 400x anyone’s power it’s gonna be closing some gaps. Once again Base Gotenks got ruined by Majin Buu, SSJ3 Gotenks could keep up with Super Buu and Gotenks base not being impressive lines up with that.

    Also Goku only ever fought Super Buu after Gotenks was absorbed so there was no demonstration of Goku not being able to take on base Super Buu.

    Another point is that there’s no difference in power between first fusing with the Metamoran fusion and then going SSJ, versus going SSJ and then fusing. If the fusion multiplied their power in any way this would not be the case. Multiplying off a higher number will cause a higher result, this is why Potara fusion being a multiplier is supported when Elder Kai tells Goku that there was a difference and that he shouldn’t go SSJ before Potara fusing. At the very least Metamoran fusion literally cannot be a multiplier that much is impossible.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    It’s nice to know you’ve given up. I mean it’s obvious you are a sore loser, my combo’s quit, I can’t hit anyone wah wah wah. So yeah it is quite obvious why you’re sad and don’t like Xenoverse. I’ll see you next year bitching about Fighterz with some other excuse.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Sounds to me like you can’t play, because I’ve never had those problems at all except when I’m fighting someone with really bad connections.

    You’ll get cheaters and spammers in any game just wait till Figherz come out there will be people spamming just like they do in Street Fighter, Injustice, Mortal Kombat, etc. You act like cheating and spamming is exclusive to Xenoverse lol

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Again that is your opinion. Who is to say what’s good or bad, who set these rules? The rules and guidelines were made by someone and it was merely their opinion. I’m sorry you can’t grasp this and think you are all knowing lol.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    We already have the fighters though go back and play the first 3 budokai, infinite world, the butoden series, etc. I’d prefer a game that’s actually true to the series instead of a Street Fighter clone.

    I was just pointing out my observation from what he was saying. I wasn’t using it as an argument. He said he couldn’t hit or do anything to anyone and that was one of the reasons he hated the game. So therefore it’s enough to reason that he’s a sore loser and that he hopes he’ll do better on the next game.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    Because I can pretty much figure it’s just a rehash of everyone else, you saying this is why it sucks, when that’s your opinion on why it sucks. Not to mention you are comparing a fighter to an entirely different type of fighter.

    Maybe learn some stuff instead of bitching about Xenoverse 2.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    Probably not, I definitely see FighterZ lasting longer for me than Xenoverse 2.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    That only goes for the nibus and seeing as Krillian held it kinda rules that out

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I get that but it only works on evil ppl, like pure evil. Vegeta and Freiza didn’t get to banged up over it, so why take a chance on someone who isn’t evil slightly evil

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Probably

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Hold on why d8dbt it bounce off like Gohan

  • Ryumancer

    I wouldn’t say FPSSJ1 Gohan was weaker than FPSSJ1 Goku. I think he was just far more hesitant to fight and therefore was letting out less power than Goku did.

    I was about to reference Goku and Vegeta’s adventure in Buu’s innards, but that would be dismissed as filler so never mind.

    If one were to go by your scale though, it feels like one (or possibly more) of these things would have to happen to make the arbitrary numbers fit:

    A) Trunks and Goten would need to be buffed (but they’re even bigger slackers than Gohan and they didn’t spend anywhere near as much time in the RoSaT)

    B) Buu and similarly strong fighters (Gohan and Vegito) would have to be nerfed (but their abilities far outclass Cell’s for example)

    C) This would possibly open up another debate about the powerscale of Buu’s various transformations (notably those that claim Kid Buu was stronger than Buuhan).

  • You see, that defense doesn’t work, because if that were the case then facts don’t exist and everything someone says or thinks is completely opinion-based.

  • Doobieastray

    so is gokus new form good or bad? he didnt even speak when he was using ultra instinct but he made fighting noises and it sounded like fusion when you hear 2 people, i think goku is not himself in this form he didnt seem like the good guy or the bad guy just mysterious like jiren.

    next hit vs jiren

  • Koibito888

    At the very least even if he was stronger it’s impossible that he was multiple times stronger so the point still stands.

    Correct lol

    Trunks and Goten don’t need to be buffed, they are strong, obviously not a lot compared to the likes of current characters and in Buu Saga alone they weren’t the hugest powers in the series but they had power. Doubling it would be decently impressive but not enough to be a huge deal which is why base Gotenks never does anything. 400x almost any lower power would be enough to close huge gaps, but 400x base Gotenks should do easily, that is a decent power to be multiplying by 400 times.

    B is the correct answer there. At least as far as multiples. Another little known fact is that Goku’s base power stopped growing in Cell Saga. He tells Gohan they had reached their limits and while Gohan was still a growing kid he could get stronger but Goku literally said in the manga “no matter how much we train now we wont get any stronger” and Goku was not talking about being tired as he immediately followed this up with “if I did nothing in the chamber for a year my power would waste away” so he accounted for time to rest too, he straight up said his base power maxed out. Obviously God Ki and unnatural factors later pushed him further but from Cell Saga to Buu Saga Goku should not have increased his base power any and only got stronger through forms that forced him passed his limits (SSJ2 and 3). So if SSJ1 Goku is as strong as regular perfect Cell and SSJ3 Goku was equal to Kid Buu in power, Kid Buu is literally only 8x stronger than Cell, but with less than to up to double being enough to humiliate an opponent, 8 times IS enough to ‘far outclass Cell’ as you put it.

    Lol and those people are goofy, I mean as we just discussed SSJ3 Goku couldn’t defeat Super Buu Gotenks absorbed even but was equal to Kid Buu.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    You don’t get it. This isn’t rumors, it was stated in the Anime.

  • Koibito888

    It wasn’t anything like that though, Goku wasn’t himself because he was basically unconscious. Ultra Instinct is fighting without thinking, so yeah in a way he has no alignment when unconscious but Goku unlocked it because of his stressed state and the sudden power and will to fight his body was being fueled by. When the form started to fade Goku got more vocal and responsive, he was literally waking up from the state.

    So its not like it turns him bad or good or anything like that he’s just basically asleep. Until he learns to do Ultra Instinct (just the speed boost, the power boost is just gonna be his base form eventually) on his own.

  • dbz

    ultra instinct > ssblue > ssgod

  • dbz

    lol I thought ultra instinct was the name of goku new transformation but apparently its just a technique

  • Koibito888

    It was stated Goku was getting faster and stronger as he fought. The same thing was stated about SSJG and the same thing to a lesser degree has always been a trait of Goku’s character. Ultra Instinct has already been hinted at and explained in the anime and what became Ultra Instinct has always been described as fighting without thinking and that’s it, it’s only a speed and reaction boost, it is not responsible for his power boost OR the whole ‘getting better as he was fighting thing’.

    The power boost is from his Ki being pressured to a point. This part I’m about to say is speculation but compressing your Ki was explained to be what makes God Ki (holding in your Ki while raising it, that part is still fact) and Goku (given by the fact that he still uses SSJG to increase his power instead of just being that strong and not sensed in base form) has not yet mastered holding in all his Ki which would make him use God Ki fully in the same manner as Beerus who just exists like that without transformation. Considering this is a power up Goku eventually has to reach and was exactly the other lesson besides fighting without thinking that Whis was teaching all this time. I think the Spirit Bomb literally condensing his Ki until he hit a powerup was showing both of Whis’ lessons in use at once. But back to facts, the power boost was caused by his Ki being compressed by the Spirit Bomb and Ultra Instinct is a separate technique ONLY responsible for the speed/reaction increase.

    Goku’s Ki being compressed and having a potential release does not explain his fighting ability increasing and neither does fighting without thinking, however Goku’s ability as a character has always explained every instance of him ‘getting suddenly stronger/faster/better while fighting’ he’s had.

    That statement and notion about what Goku was doing was showing that this power and Ultra Instinct each have higher limits and Goku has more to go in the same exact way he was getting rapidly better in SSJG against Beerus, not a special trait of either of these two powerups.

  • Koibito888

    It’s just a technique, but the power up is just because his own Ki was compressed so it’s likely a base power up. Ultra Instinct is the technique but because the power up wasn’t really a transformation either just a base power increase, it’s likely the silver eyes come from Ultra Instinct and will be sort of like Kaioken where it’s just a technique but it works and looks like a transformation.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Jiren reminds me of Gogeta SSJ4 when he was fighting Omega
    That fight was awesome I didn’t like they pull a SSG with that Transformation it ran out.

    But after this who the hell going challenge Goku? They can’t make up a new villain out no where and have no explantation why he wasn’t in the Tournament. Final Arc?

    If they have another arc it better top fight with Jiren vs Goku my expectation to high now.

  • Saiyan Soul

    It’s a rehash? maybe it’s cause the complaints are valid and people find the same mistakes in Xeno as I do, and also again how can it be my opinion when it’s a known fact that Toriyama has gone on record to praise the game? is that my opinion too?
    Or how about the fact that the hitboxes are larger? is that my opinion too?
    Oh wait, the netcode is bad too, that’s an opinion too, am I right?
    it’s still falls under the fighting game genre and it is considered a fighter, just cause it’s an arena figther doesn’t mean it’s exempt from being judged under standard fighters.

    Try harder lel

  • Doobieastray

    i see where your coming from but ultra instinct is more “reacting without thinking” than fighting without thinking. i feel like goku is accompanied by something (maybe he gains clarity)
    when he is in ultra instinct rather than him being asleep. what if goku is too mechanical and has no empathy in this form? i just pictured goku going too far and killing jiren if ultra instinct did not disappear lol he showed no sign of slowing down just being straight forward.
    your point is interesting i did not think to see it as a technique.

  • Ryumancer

    Oh I wouldn’t go that far either.

    I don’t think Frieza Saga/Android Saga-level Super Saiyans added together are that significant compared to a being that far surpasses Cell. Let’s say (just for the sake of argument) that Goten or Trunks had a base of 3 mil for a PL, you combine them for the alleged fusion and get a base of 6 mil. Multiply by 50 to get SSJ1 for a total of 300 mil (A PL I’m quite sure Goku could top easily even with his own SSJ1 form). Multiply by 8 to get SSJ3 for a total of 2.4 bil. I’d consider that just above Super Perfect Cell level, maybe double him by most. Gotenks by that scale seems relatively quite weak. Sure, I’d consider Fat Buu to be at that level, and he did pwn base Gotenks quite easily. But I just think compared to all the other forms of Buu, that PL just wouldn’t cut it. Not trying to argue. I just seem to have a hard time seeing that way. What general vague PL do you put major players around the Cell and Buu Sagas?

    Agreed. They don’t listen that well.

  • Doobieastray

    another fight that can top jiren vs goku is vegeta vs goku imo or even beerus vs goku and vegeta or hit vs freeza. i know all episodes cant have the same quality like the hour special but imagine if they did, how more amazing would our weeks be lol

  • uhMayzedHD

    Yep because it Toei… Sigh
    I find Goku has been beyond him for ages like Beerus uses like 60-70% on Goku thoses type of numbers is nothing DB Universe.

    Frieza I don’t see it
    Hit he had a little trouble with his last fight and now he going pull up on Jiren, Hit you my boi but you na about that life.
    Vegeta got the potential because the rivalry (even though Vegeta ended it in Buu saga) but I would love to see it Goku vs Vegeta Battle they are my favorite

  • Koibito888

    SSJ’s are more significant than people realize. 50x is a lot and this is even shown from Battle of Gods on where they stated pre-god base Goku at the start of the movie still couldn’t beat Namek Saga Frieza in his base form, it shows that from Frieza Saga to the start of BoG, Goku’s base didn’t even get 50x stronger and honestly it lines up because multipliers are still huge.

    It’s hard to say where I would put characters’ power levels because there’s no clear example of before and after power levels of the long strides of training they took and just too many variables and power levels are bull anyway. I will say that because of the above, Cell has to be significantly less than 50x stronger than Frieza. If Goku’s power increased by 50x to match Cell then his base would be able to match Namek Frieza which we know is not the case. Kid Buu has to only be 8x stronger than Cell because of the scaling of Goku with the fact that he hit his limit in Cell Saga.

    Goten and Trunks are obviously weaker than Goku and Gohan but there’s no way that Goku and Gohan are ridiculously higher multiples times their power. With opponents overwhelmingly stronger than one another at a max of under 50x, doubling Goten and Trunks and multiplying that by 400 is gonna close most gaps in Z.

  • Koibito888

    I mean it’s the same thing, reacting, fighting without thinking the point is that his state of mind is without thought. I’m not saying I believe Goku will always have to be unconscious to do it, I’m saying in this fight he was able to achieve it because of his unconscious yet powered state. He will later learn to do it on his own. But the point is it is a thoughtless state of mind.

    This is DBZ, it’s not gonna get deep and emotional by making Goku like loose his empathy and be cold and with possibility of killing others when he doesn’t want to like we’re not gonna get a Goku struggling with his dark power sort of thing lol.

    But yeah that’s pretty much what it was. And the power boost came from the Spirit Bomb condensing his Ki, funny that the anime described God Ki as ‘holding in your Ki while raising it’, literally God Ki is condensed Ki and the Spirit Bomb condensed Goku’s Ki and that’s why he got a huge power boost. Ultra Instinct is separate from this and is the technique responsible for his speed/reaction boost.

  • Doobieastray

    freeza vs hit is more a personal request lol i doubt many would want to know who is stronger. yea to be fair despo already knew about hits time skip which isnt explained how he knew? but hit is in my top 5 favorite dbs characters. we know he is not the one to defeat jiren lol sorry hit you are just there for jiren to show us how much of a monster he is haha

  • dbz

    your probably right about the ultra instinct technique but I still believe the power up is a new transformation

  • Doobieastray

    yea it doesn’t need to be deep and emotional it just needs to explain this ultra instinct, what i mean is goku has side effects with his other transformations and techniques so maybe this one has a side effect too?

    yea the anime is subbed by the community so its almost like consuming a different version, im waiting for the eng dub to catch up or get closer to the jap dub.

  • dbz

    he probably just challenge a stronger opponent and goku will some how achieve a new transformation

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Show me we’re it was stated for SSJG that with every single move he gets faster and stronger. You seem to overthink this. This state made Goku limitless.

    And geez, there’s no point writing this much Nonsense. I’m at work. Keep it short dude.

    Ultimate Instinct = Instand Speed and Power ups.
    “The whole World of Void was shaking”
    The world of Void is infinite. Nuff said. You can’t just go around and spread false rumors because you like it to be as you wish. Go watch SethTheProgammer on YouTube he’ll explain it to you.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Also Goku and Jiren where flying in the World of Void. This two are on another level

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    The ”transformation” felt rushed, the whole fight was anticlimactic, yet the difference in power between Jiren and Goku was even more ridiculous, the lack of a character development or background for Jiren at this point where they’re fighting makes him all the more unbelievable, it makes him also a horrendous, undeveloped character who is strong just because, and thats dumb as bullshit

    The fight choreography and animation were excellent, but this Ultra Instinct bullshit came out of motherfucking nowhere, its explanation was poor as sht, its still unjustified how Goku attained a mode that not even the God of Destruction Beerus can master

    Perhaps the worst asspull this shown has shown, ever, this show never disappoints in terms of ridiculousness and plot holes, holy fucks

  • Cause Goku was pushing it.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Yeah Freeza vs Hit would be awesome or Freeza vs Toppo

  • uhMayzedHD

    I see DB community got ammo to fight against the One Punch Man Community and on Deathbattle about a Superman vs Goku part 3 omg no just no.

  • What a bunch of nerds.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Still it wouldn’t have hurt him

  • Koibito888

    No using things like ‘it made him limitless’ is overthinking it because it’s reaching beyond what we’ve seen. Even if the form granted an extra boost to Goku’s already existing ability to learn and get better while fighting there is no hint of it removing the concept of limits which have always existed in Z. At best the most you could logically assume the form doing is the Ultra Instinct part being mindless it’s letting him absorb information better and his already ‘learns fast’ trait is skyrocketed but THAT is overthinking it.

    Ultra Instinct = speed boost

    Spirit Bomb compressing his energy = power up

    Two separate power ups, ‘fighting without thinking’ does not make you stronger it ONLY makes you faster.

    This is not overthinking it because this is what was shown and explained to us on screen.

  • Ryumancer

    Why not?

    Saitama’s practically featless and Superman isn’t limitless like those idiots at ScrewAttack keep saying.

  • Ryumancer

    Then why the f*ck do you watch it, you moron?

  • uhMayzedHD

    Because Goku is going lose again. Secondly it repetitive and lame it’s like Call of Duty every year. I don’t mind a rematch for a 2nd time but the 3rd time it’s getting out of hand and if Goku lose again people want 4th rematch then a 5th and 6th. Even if Goku did win there going be more reboots of Superman doing other incredibles feats while Super is going to end I don’t see DB pulling a Pokemon series.

    I want to see other anime fight like One Piece, HxH, Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto and etc…

  • uhMayzedHD

    Yeah I was expecting explantation when Vegeta ask him about it and Goku doesn’t even know. Plot Armor.

  • uhMayzedHD

    He has the right to criticize anything he want him, His criticize doesn’t effect you from enjoying it.
    He probably watch it because nostalgia.

  • Ryumancer

    Goku’s been closing the gap tremendously. He’d put New 52 Supes to shame. The only reason he’d lose a third time would be the result of ScrewAttack’s half-assed research and improper amalgamation of Supermen. No doubt he’d lose to Silver Age Supes and Thought Robot Supes. But New 52, Pre-Flashpoint, and Rebirth would all be a different story.

    The first rematch doesn’t even count because they horrifically jumped the gun. They should’ve waited longer.

    The only way Supes would win “so easily” this time would be BFR and would just chill in space while Goku suffocates.

  • Ryumancer

    If he watches it JUST to criticize then he’s not a fan.

    Though your second paragraph is likely the reason.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Tell I see Goku benchpress Earth for 5 days DC community will probably want to see another fight but to them it’s pointless fight.
    DBS fight destruction has lowered the amount to what has happen in the Dressora arc in One Piece.

    Dragon Ball is one the most inconsistence and the story lack in dept explantation out there. Reason DB characters shouldn’t be in Death Battle. If people go watch a video call “How Strong is Goku right now” (example) both them videos will have different answer this where DB community is divide because most it are headcanon.

  • uhMayzedHD

    People watch it for Nostalgia when people mess up what they enjoy from there childhood they going criticize it. Like me I want DB to be great I want every anime I watch be 10/10 amazing.

  • BudokaiLimit

    More like from what I have seen, the show still carries the same qualities it had early on. For example, I believe you can relate it to the spirit bomb on namek? Frieza was strong to begin like almost every villian (jiren), and he had no backstory. He was strong to begin with no way of finding out how. Also goku pushed his limit through the needs to just like how he attained the mode not why he did, think about it if a show had to meet people like your qualities then it would be bland and unoriginal, kind of like boku no hero and naruto. These shows are meant to be enjoyed, or meant to gain money. Either way, go make your own anime if you got a problem. I actually want to make one htough dont call me weeboo

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I rather a superman vs saitama (I say saitama would but that depends on which superman they use)

  • uhMayzedHD

    Saitama vs Goku
    People still bringing this up… And the salt level is going be super high on who ever wins.

    I need that entertainment in my life in comment section of Deathbattle video..

  • Anthony_weaver86

    So who do you think would win, wonder woman or Thor? I have to say they both have some similarities, though I believe WW is the better fighter while Thor might have more power than her (though this is only due to his Thor force)

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Lol tge salt war

  • Anthony_weaver86

    ….I mean every one have their own words and seeing as he watch super, he probably wants it to be better

  • KDG

    Krillin held it after Goku gathered it. This does not necessarily mean Krillin isn’t susceptible to its power if used violently against him. The only person we know is pure enough that it won’t hurt them is Gohan, and that may no longer even apply to him.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Then why is he on the whole hero team then and did they show he had any evil intent? Also even if he was it still wouldn’t do squat on him seeing as ppl still survive the attack

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Goku has never had his Spirit forced back onto himself.

    Minus Kid Buu but it didn’t envelop him like it did against Jiren.

    Now, I’m not sure how I feel about the explanation but Dragon Ball has never been meant to be taken as seriously as you’re taking it.

    Just sit back, relax and enjoy the action aspect which is its main focus.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    “DBS fight destruction has lowered the amount to what has happen in the Dressora arc in One Piece.”

    Nevermind that in the Battle of Gods saga the entire universe was shaking apart at Goku and Beerus’ clash and there was apparently a really good chance of the entirety of U7 coming apart.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    It was foreshadowed when Whis was training Goku and Vegeta in Resurrection F. Ultra Instinct had better foreshadowing than Super Saiyans 2 or 3.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    There are still four universes that were exempt from the Tournament of Power because they were stronger than the rest.

  • Ashura Otsutsuki

    O no way is this an outdated dragon ball game … i gotta watch that fight again bcause this is unforgivable (̿▀̿ ̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿)̄

  • Ryumancer

    Better to separate it into categories:

    Durability: Thor>WW
    Flight Speed: Thor>WW
    Combat Speed: WW>Thor
    Experience: Thor>WW
    Tactics: Thor=WW
    Lifting Strength: Thor>WW
    Striking Strength: Thor>WW
    Perceptiveness: WW>Thor

    Those are the only categories I can think of at the top of my head. Both are gifted battle tacticians, but Thor’s stats are overall far greater than Wonder Woman’s. However, Wonder Woman has shown to be faster in combat and less likely to fall for any deception on her opponent’s part. Thor gets led into traps constantly, mainly by his own brother Loki.

    Despite those two decent advantages, those wouldn’t be enough for her to win over Thor in my opinion. Thor is millennia older and has been through SO much more. Wonder Woman’s best chance is separating Thor from Mjolnir, and not even that is a solid strategy. Also, if Thor becomes engulfed in his “Warrior Madness” mode, his already ridiculous stats skyrocket even further.

    As much as I would kinda root for Diana in this scenario, I’d say she’s quite the underdog in this fight.

  • Ryumancer

    Not even the old DB/Z was 10/10. This sounds more like high standards as opposed to nostalgia.

  • Ryumancer

    Probably the subject of the next major arc most likely. Seems like the most logical step. Either them or the Grand Priest.

  • Ryumancer

    Benchpressing doesn’t have a practical use in a fight. Lifting Strength is useless if you don’t have your opponent in a hold. Striking Strength is the far more utilized thing here. Fight destruction was lowered because the fighters can condense and localize the damage to a smaller area.

  • Doobieastray

    marvel or dc? i pick ww cause i like dc more

  • Ryumancer

    Somewhat the same here for the moment. Though I HATE Injustice Wonder Woman. She’s a B*TCH. LOL

  • Rafty

    maybe WW as someone stated thor gets tricked rather easily.

    but i guess it’ll depend on the writer lol.

    WW has been shown many times to go toe-to-toe with a lot of heavy hitters including those that will give thor a run for his money.
    I’m not even a big fan of WW heck i haven’t even read a Dc comic in months so i have no idea how strong she has gotten now.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Planets yeah Universe tear apart never happen or was going to happen or say it was going happen.

    But after that arc that never happen again or brought up or something close to that it’s seems the animator wants to forget that ever happen or it was to early make Goku that strong.

    Even with all the people in the Tournament the Stage is broken up little by DB standarded of destruction espicially with these so call strong “Powerful character clashing”

  • uhMayzedHD

    I think Wonder Woman going to win but I want Thor to win (Because I like him more)… I happy with any result to be honest

  • uhMayzedHD

    I prefer Marvel over DC to honest.
    I got more favorite characters in Marvel then DC even though Superman is my favorite Superhero of all time.

  • Doobieastray

    i used to like marvel a lot but i noticed when i came of age i liked the dark tone dc has, it feels more realistic.
    for marvel dr doom is my favorite and dc batman is my main unless they put Damien Wayne in the dc cinematic universe.

  • dbz

    I think thor would win wonder woman but there both strong so it could go either way to be honest

  • Ryumancer

    @Koibito888:disqus should probably chime in on this too.

    Anyway, there are likely several factors as to why the SSJG Goku/Beerus fight and other things mentioned were NOT outliers:

    A) Beerus has destroyed countless celestial bodies including but not limited to stars and planets. Goku was able to match the ki output and force Beerus was putting forth. If a fighter is a certified planet buster (or in this case a multi-galaxy or universe buster) and another person matches the first guy’s ki output and force, guess what? He’s able to do that exact same thing. Not to mention several characters and even the freaking narrator were saying plain as day that they were on the verge of destroying Universe 7.

    B) I already told you on COUNTLESS occasions that they can condense and localize the area of effect of their attacks. That’s why you don’t see the fighters blow up a whole planet with every single tiny ki blast nowadays.

    C) All the fighters in the tournament are attempting to hold their power back for the long haul and to last the longest before the tournament expires. So their attacks are likely doing less damage as a result.

    D) The tournament ring has been mentioned at least twice to be made of the strongest metal out of the entire multiverse and is therefore able to tank some ridiculous power.

  • It came out this year. How is it outdated?

  • We talking comics, movies? Jane Foster, or Thor Odinson?

  • How does One Punch Man have anything to do with Dragon Ball or Super Man?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Either I guess

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Yep

  • S2J

    this is one reason why people say you can’t express your opinion on Saiyan Island

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I would say they both have equal am mouths of experience seeing as they spent like eons of training, and as for durability and lifting they both seem equal…..wait his hammer is literally a star so nvm. But he does have more power seeing as he fought Galatics though this was a weaken one

  • KDG

    Vegeta is technically on a hero team too. That does not negate his terrible past, nor the fact that he’s wiped out countless planets full of people over the course of 20+ years prior to his first encounter with Goku.

    No evil intent has been shown in regard to Jiren, but that’s not to say he’s pure. Currently we know nothing about Jiren except that he is more powerful than Beerus and his own God of Destruction, and that he is a Pride Trooper. In fact despite being the strongest member, he’s not the leader. That’s it. There has been no backstory given, we don’t know how he came to be so powerful, or how he became a Pride Trooper.

    And of course evil or good doesn’t necessarily mean the Spirit Bomb would actually succeed. If you want to be technical, the Spirit Bomb has a pretty crap track record. Out of three people Goku used it on, he only barely managed to kill one. Vegeta was still up to fight after being hit with the first one, Frieza managed to incapacitate Piccolo, kill Krillin, and fight a Super Saiyan Goku after being hit with a pretty big Spirit Bomb, and Majin Buu pretty much threw it right back at Goku. Goku has had more success with Kamehameha waves than he has with Spirit Bombs. Evil intent or not, the Spirit Bomb just sucks.

  • luis

    havent u seen the movie super android 13 where he absorbs a genkidama into his body

  • Ryumancer

    Not really. Wonder Woman has only lived as long as a normal human female. Thor lived for thousands of years.

    WW can be quite fragile at certain times. Bullets can graze her and leave scratches or bruises depending on the caliber.

  • Ryumancer

    Then why are YOU doing it? 😉

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I thought she was over 1000 years old and her clan have a longevity

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Okay so he isn’t evil and you can’t say just because he isn’t pure hearted, and I agree the SB does suck

  • Ryumancer

    Her mainstream comic version was stated at one time to be 25 years old. But you’re right about the longevity part. She’s unable to die of old age.

    The only version of Wonder Woman I can remember that was stated to be over a millennium old was her DC Cinematic Universe counterpart. I think Zack Snyder stated her to be about 5000 years old. But her comic book self is not that old.

    Overall, Thor on average is stated to be 1000 years old at the bare minimum.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Ah

  • Koibito888

    Yeah you literally cannot say that the destruction is inconsistent because of the universe not shaking, they explicitly covered that in both physical and energy form in the BoG saga that was the whole reason the universe wasn’t destroyed and that’s what’s happening.

    And yeah the ring is made of a super version of the hardest substance in the universe and built in a way to withstand damage that was then improved upon by the Gods who broke it.

  • NinetalesCommander

    That’s where you’re wrong, yes the games do pander to Dragonball Z fans but not the types of Dragonball Fans that hate games like Dragonball Xenoverse 2.
    In fact, ever since Dragonball FighterZ was announced, I’ve seen a lot of Non-Dragonball fans come up in support of this game. Just look at Maximilian Dood, his knowledge on Dragonball is very limited and even he’s expressed a lot of interest in this game.
    As another piece of evidence, back in the days of the Playstation 2, there was a game called Super Dragonball Z and it was made by a group of people that had worked on Street Fighter Games and in Japan and to an extent the West, the game was highly praised by competitive players that didn’t care for other games in the franchise because they were not very competitive-friendly.
    The Dragonball Fanbase is massive and among it’s members are a lot of different types of people, some care about games like DBX2 because it mimics the effects of the show while others prefer the more competitive scene that Dragonball FighterZ appeals to.
    And with competitive play in fighting games being a big thing right now, making a game like Dragonball FighterZ makes perfect sense but not for people that love DBX2.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    No, it didn’t. It’s been a year already. Came out last year.

  • KDG

    I didn’t say he wasn’t pure hearted. I said there was a possibility he wasn’t. That was my whole point: we don’t know anything about Jiren to assume he is just because he’s on a team of heroes.

  • Ryumancer

    They covered that in the first Super arc? I gotta watch it again.

    I know right?

  • Goku Black

    Seeing how you never seen what I look like: Stop talking about yourself. Again. Take your own advice.

  • Goku Black

    The feeling when you have 1045 soul orbs, but too scared to do a summon. -Please wait for me Ulquiorra…- ; – ;

  • Koibito888

    I mean there’s more Jiren to come. Grand Priest even went out of his way to state that like Goku, Jiren could NOT get that strong just on training showing that he very much has a backstory so like they addressed that very complaint so no, Jiren is not just strong just because, they literally stated that that would be impossible. How about wait for a backstory and let things build up? There is more to Jiren and this arc ain’t even over.

    The technique had been built up to since the RoF Saga so you’re objectively incorrect to say that it came out of nowhere. Beerus can actually DO this technique but hasn’t mastered it, you can barely even say Goku ‘got it’ considering he was obviously unconscious for the duration and him waking from that state was what ended it so your implication that Goku ‘just got this technique’ and that somehow surpasses Beerus is also false.

    If people would actually have paid attention they would notice that Ultra Instinct is ONLY the speed boost and was caused by Goku being pushed to a point of unconsciousness with his body still fighting which was the exact definition of Ultra Instinct. So it didn’t have to be the Spirit Bomb, Goku didn’t get it ‘just by forcing Genkidama the other way around’ he got it by being pushed to said point which makes absolute anime sense. A character being pushed to a point where they are unconscious but their body keeps trying to fight is basically a trope there’s nothing nonsensical about it and Beerus could still do it better than Goku.

    The reason for the power boost was the Spirit Bomb collapsing onto his Ki and pressuring in his Ki to a point – that’s also literally what’s been foreshadowed since RoF Saga with God Ki being ‘holding in your Ki’. Everything about the form has been built up from the start of Super and was explained and shown on screen.

    And why didn’t it happen with Buu? Because Goku never got pushed that far. He got his energy back and overwhelmed Buu way before any sort of desperation point would have been hit like this. Come on you’re smarter than that everyone should know this.

    I mean be a critic all you want but come on don’t base your opinions off incorrect or missing information and bias, actually pay attention.

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Exactly! Fighting is the main focus for it. People take it too seriously when it comes to the story.

  • Koibito888

    That was literally the solution to the plot problem of “they’re going to destroy the universe if they keep clashing”. Like universe is about to wreck apart because of their clashes and then it stopped and they explained that Goku was not only learning to direct his punches so that all of the damage went into the opponent, but ALSO that he could tank the damage in such a way that the same effect would happen. So they literally demonstrated one character accounting not only for his own damage but his opponent’s.

    And then they did the same thing with energy and had (I think) Beerus nullify it before the moment we all know with Goku unknowingly nullifying Beerus’ blast (which is possibly the same thing he was trying to do with the Spirit Bomb) so they go out of their way to show Goku being able to nullify or tank all of physical and energy attacks whether he is getting hit or delivering the hit. There’s absolutely no feasible way that Vegeta didn’t also learn this he was fully aware of it as close as he was watching their fight and just the pattern of Vegeta learning these things off screen.

    This is why God Goku and Vegeta level characters and up aren’t destroying everything. Goku and Vegeta could tank Frieza’s hits and deliver them without damage spilling over to the planet and everything around. From the next two arcs we got a lot of fights of Goku and Vegeta holding back and using lesser forms and any instance of two characters of those levels evenly clashing is rare but would then be explained by that.

    Only now do we got many characters and a bunch of those levels letting destruction run wild but we got the Super Katchin ring tanking it all with Goku reasonably able to punch through the stuff now.

    The destructive scale is completely consistent.

  • Koibito888

    I mean the explanation is sound. Character A fighting so hard they go unconscious but their body is still pushing is literal anime trope, if anyone can’t accept something like that by now then anime is clearly not for them because it happens. Goku was able to use a technique Whis had been trying to teach them since RoF (probably longer than any buildup for a powerup ever) which literally involved fighting without thinking, literally fighting unconsciously. There’s no better or more sound explanation for Goku to get a technique than this.

    The power boost (separate from the speed/reaction boost of Ultra Instinct) happened because the Spirit Bomb condensed his Ki to a point and pressured it. God Ki was literally described as holding in your Ki while raising it, it was shown to be nothing more than condensed Ki. ‘Holding in your Ki’ was the only other lesson Whis had been hammering in since RoF. Two lessons, two powerups, and one of those powerups was clearly the result of one of those lessons – I think it’s pretty clear the other powerup was related to the other lesson.

    My point being that even if you’re going in and taking DB seriously and trying to figure out how it all works it’s still consistent, but you have to pay attention and remember all the details for that to be the case but this guy is clearly not doing that in his criticism.

  • Koibito888

    I wonder if they were flying or falling with style lol.

    Like I’ll have to watch again but I feel like every scene of them in the air they were descending and every instance of them going up came immediately after jumping or striking.

  • Koibito888

    Supposedly a new mystery character is supposed to interrupt the tournament.

    There are several reasons why a character wouldn’t have been in. I mean simple enough they could say no, I mean U7 had several moments alone of characters dropping out, about to drop out, saying no at first, just that team alone lol. If it’s a character above Gods then clearly the call is theirs and they wouldn’t be threatened by their God of Destruction and wouldn’t have to join. Like with Frieza it could be someone too dangerous and they didn’t wanna take the chance. It could be any of the four universes not participating. Something from the 6 erased universes could come up. Like there are just way too many reasons why someone stronger could have not participated to even try and start thinking “they couldn’t just do this or that” because there are so many reasons.

  • lolcatz6657

    Knowing my luck, you won’t get a single 5 star with all those orbs lol

  • Anthony_weaver86

    What do you get when you put SAsuke ITAchi and MAdara together?

  • Ryumancer

    I agree. They control both energy and force. And the control only seems to increase with their training and power boosts.

  • Ryumancer

    Either the most overrated clan of ninjas or the most overhyped modern anime protagonist in recent memory, arguably of all time. 😉

  • Ryumancer

    Annoyed is a better term for this. lol

    There is one thing and one thing only that is mentioned more than Saitama or the Uchihas. That, my friend, is Spongebob.

  • Doobieastray

    sasukeitachimadara lol

  • Doobieastray

    actually sasukeitachiandmadara?

  • Anthony King

    Lol I never notice that

  • Anthony King

    So I saw Ultra instinct and while I don’t like the form the fight scene was decent but, it gave off that ssj4 feel.

  • Doobieastray

    what do you get when you put SAm ITAly and MAp together?

  • Ashura Otsutsuki

    Nah that was completetly different and cool

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Are you the same Naruto fan on youtube?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Vegeta vs Gen Zodd was the best fight in DBX ever, and like always they show off Vegeta as best dad

  • Forged in a Star. It needed the heat of the star to mold the metal.

  • 1 minute ago while the most recent comment, excluding this one, was made over an hour ago.

  • Doobieastray

    huh?

  • Doobieastray

    weird how people get influenced by trending comments.

  • Ryumancer

    Yeah. Vegeta Blue would destroy Zod.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    A youtube said the same thing about th8s joke

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Indeed but it was pretty obvious, I just like the comparison of the two

  • dbz

    lol you can create your own saiyan and ninja it would be cool if you could create your own pirate

  • Doobieastray

    its called humor, im not surprised people other than me have it. ofcourse its saitama but i was poking fun at how your joke has more then 1 correct answer. putting sasuke itachi and madara together gives saitama? hmmmm interesting lol

  • Doobieastray

    if only they made a j stars sequal

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Well the other person was being serious

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Oh

  • Sakata Gintoki

    I am glad goku finally became hokage in the this episode of super

  • Anthony King

    This is only in my opinion

  • dbz

    if xeno 3 comes out we might be able to go ss4/ssgod its like liger was saying if we are able to go ss4 we might be able to fight the golden ape or if we are able to go ssgod we might get training from beerus or whis

  • They shall.

  • Masso

    they should give us Ultra instinct as an awoken skill, because it’s not exclusive to saiyans, and that way it would be more baklanced

  • Oncle SamGaming

    Sooooooo …. Hit is out the picture.

    Man. Jiren is cleary the Saitama of Dragon Ball.

    Plot wise, this arc is really good as it’s not at all calling it’s shots and surprising us all the way.

    Most people thought Goku VS Jiren would be the final battle with only them remaining on the stage but we are SOOOOOO far from it.

    Now we are thinking : either U7 is gonna win by taking their time and winning by the numbers, or Goku will achieve Ultra Instinct again ( which is pretty obvious because of marketing images ) and manage to ring out Jiren by sheer luck …

    Or you know, Gogeta Blue Kaioken X20 Big Bang Kamehameha to obliterate the rest of the stage. XD

    Anyway, loving this tournament arc.

  • dbz

    saiyans always had more transformations than other races so I think it only makes sense if they add the next level of transformation it would be cool if they add ultra instinct though

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Goku beating Jiren will not be by luck.

    He just needs to maintain that form long enough to compete with him.

  • Doobieastray

    hit is the one with the one punch technique, member he one punch goku and goku died lmao

  • Aizen Sousuke

    Im guessing Gohan will get a new transformation and surpass goku like in the cell games

  • Doobieastray

    Yea gohan said after the exhibition match he wants a new form and he doesn’t want it to be like ssg. Gohan will defeat jiren

  • Doobieastray

    Hopefully. J stars is missing full metal, attack on titan, one punch, fairy tail, and champloo just to name a few.

  • dbz

    jiren > hit

  • dbz

    so frieza told goku about ultra instinct interesting and looks like they show the nemkians in this episode

  • Doobieastray

    how dare you lol

  • Doobieastray

    yea freeza is planning something lol i think he wants goku to activate ultra instinct again so freeza can learn it and use it on the gods or xeno since he despises them so much lol

  • dbz

    good theory or he just wants goku to win

  • dbz

    that fight was epic

  • Doobieastray

    if he wants goku to win then it would be for the wish he is promised, i cant see freeza helping without it benefiting him also

  • Doobieastray

    hits loss was handled perfectly.

  • dbz

    your right I think frieza is planning something evil but I don’t see how he would be able to use ultra instinct

  • dbz

    ikr

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    None of those except One Punch Man would be able to be in J-Stars 2. They aren’t published by Shueisha.

  • Doobieastray

    yea thats why fairy tale and full metal wasnt in the first j stars but this shouldnt stop them from being in a sequel imo since j stars is for the fans.

  • Mʀ. Bᴏɴᴇs ✓ᵛᵉʳᵇᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ˢᵏᵉˡᵉᵗᵒⁿ

    The J in J-Stars stands for Jump, as in Shonen Jump, which the game was created to mark the company’s 45th birthday.

  • Doobieastray

    ah interesting, i knew the roster was shonen jump but not the title of the game haha

  • Doobieastray

    @Koibito888:disqus said something interesting about ultra instinct being a technique which makes sense and is the reason why i said freeza wants to learn it.

  • dbz

    yeah he said something about it increasing speed

  • Doobieastray

    yea but a speed increase seems too dull for ultra instinct

  • dbz

    yeah but when the spirit bomb hit goku apparently it powered him up but who knows

  • Doobieastray

    yea its weird because goku did not return to base form when he fell into that black hole which is why i dont believe it powered him up? but like you said who knows..

  • Koibito888

    Yeah Ultra Instinct is just a technique it’s only the ‘move without thinking’ thing and it’s something that could just be taught to anyone like how Whis had been trying to teach it to Beerus and Goku and Vegeta all the same. If it can be taught to anyone means anyone can learn it.

    The power boost was definitely a separate thing, but even if they group it together from now on it’s clear it took a certain level of power to be able to use said technique, rather than said technique granting power. Point being it’s a matter of training to learn it so Frieza could definitely be able to use Ultra Instinct.

  • Your lack of coma and punctuation makes this hard to understand.

  • Really? You never questioned why it was called “J-Stars” with only Shonen Jump characters being represented in it?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    .So….that new Black Panther trailer was release and let’s just say, I need a new  junk

  • Doobieastray

    no because i thought it was a Japanese thing.

  • Doobieastray

    im guilty of this lol excuse my punctuation im lazy like that haha

  • You need a new junk? What?

  • So you thought the J stood for “Japanese”?

  • Anthony_weaver86

    A new dyck

  • ®CodeBreaker™

    Yeah, half the time has only passed. Guessing another 10 episodes or so will end the arc. Maybe a bit longer.

  • Doobieastray

    i did not know what it meant, i thought it was a inside thing like only japanese people would get it.

  • Doobieastray

    looks cool i just watched it.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I believe it will be better than Thor 3

  • Doobieastray

    thor looks amazing too, im waiting for a fantastic 4 or a xmen movie. i need some dr doom or magneto.

  • Masso

    I’d rather have Ultra Instinct as some kind of improved potential unleashed, as in, it would be available to all races but give a better stat boost, mainly on speed. And for saiyan exclusive transformations, I’d rather have God or Rage. I don;t really like how blue looks in xenoverse

  • Doobieastray

    yea xmen vs avengers would be cool. deadpool 2 and the new xmen have finished filming.

  • uhMayzedHD

    But Whis can react without thinking. I don’t think it’s that because Goku went through a transformation.

  • uhMayzedHD

    This arc is ok. It’s not bad or good neither it’s in the middle of the road.
    Is it better than previous Arc? Yeah but that’s nothing hard to achieve or beat your chest about neither.
    But Jiren remind me of Gogeta SSJ4 like attack and hitting enemies just by looking

  • uhMayzedHD

    I don’t see that happen Gohan (Surpassing Goku) is like a one hit wonder if this arc end he back to his old self again.

  • uhMayzedHD

    That Jiren and Hit fight was awesome
    But that plot armor Jiren had is crazy Hit could knock him out by make Saiyans blast him outside the ring while he had him Frozen.

  • dbz

    that fight was great the saiyans could of knock him out the ring but despo and toppo probably would of got involved

  • dbz

    if they add ultra instinct that would be cool and like you said it could improve the characters speed stat but I would rather have ss4/ssgod over ssrage if they add blue it would be interesting since its a higher level of transformation to ssgod

  • KDG

    The Spirit Bomb did not power Goku up. The Spirit Bomb simply acted as a battery; it gave Goku’s energy-drained body a temporary source of energy to run on. The increase in strength was merely his dormant power. As Whis explained in 110, the act of Goku’s energy resisting the power of the exploded Spirit Bomb that entered his body caused Goku to break through the shell to access his dormant potential. Goku’s new power is extremely akin to Gohan’s unlocked potential, except instead of Elder Kai unlocking it, his energy’s clash against the Spirit Bomb did it for him.

  • Koibito888

    I think that shell was a metaphor for the power he’s been working towards since RoF. With the way potential works, Goku basically got a new max potential once getting God Ki. Like since Cell Saga he had hit his limit and used SSJ forms to temporarily surpass those limits and when he got God Ki they kept implying that Goku did not know the limits of it, particularly in the anime in which Goku had several moments of powering up only to find out the form had more power than he was using. Since then both the manga and anime keep pushing the idea of holding in your Ki, which is exactly what was described as making God Ki in the first place.

    Whether it brought Goku to his max godly potential (just max power in base form) or broke it in a new way I think physically what happened is Goku’s power increased because it was condensed. Condensing Ki makes God Ki but as demonstrated you can be using God Ki while still letting some leak out as regular Ki, so to exist like Beerus where you just exist with God Ki all the time and can’t be sensed you gotta hold in your Ki and compress it.

    God Ki is made by compressing Ki.

    Goku received a power boost by the Spirit Bomb collapsing specifically onto his energy with him resisting it. Literally compressing his Ki.

    Whis’ only other lesson besides fighting without thinking was holding in your Ki while raising it.

    The new form was the culmination of two powerups, one of which confirmed to be one of Whis’ two lessons

    I don’t think all of these facts are unrelated.

    My point is I think it is more the final point to God Ki training, holding it in the most physically possible would be the ultimate potential of God Ki by definition. A new potential was addressed heavily literally at the start of this new God power happening. I think Goku’s energy was condensed to the smallest point it could and that that was the point of black hole imagery having to literally collapse on Goku to make it happen. Because of this I think it’s less like Elder Kai’s potential unleash that let him reach SSJ from base form, I think Goku is not able to be SSJ or Blue in base form and that this means Goku will still add SSJ and Blue on top of this power boost.

    I think the base form will be less like Gohan’s potential where he powers up to full as if it were a form and it’s just his base power, and more like when base Goku fought Frieza and he was just at a new height of base form because of learning God Ki – the wiki defines it as a form but it’s more ‘full power’ and without Spirit Bomb being sucked into it he’ll probably even lack the cool aura upon learning to do this without.

    Tl;dr I think it’s more like the ‘Full Power Super Saiyan’ of SSJG, than mystic which would imply reaching his higher forms in base form.

  • Koibito888

    Not really when that speed increase has been hyped up to hell. I mean Whis has been talking about moving without thinking for a while as a thing that is a technique he can do, something Beerus hasn’t mastered even, and when Goku got it he’s casually blitzing faster than light characters. Nothing dull about that.

    Power increase came from his energy being condensed by the Spirit Bomb. The Spirit Bomb energy itself barely helped, but his energy being condensed did it and this is NOT Ultra Instinct. Goku will learn to do this without Spirit Bomb and it probably will lack the cool aura it gave him so it literally will just be Goku in base form being that strong.

    Even if Goku separately powers up to full every time he uses Ultra Instinct one he learns it, making it seem like Ultra Instinct also is a powerup, the focus will likely be on that speed and the only change at most could be his eyes if those too weren’t changed by the Spirit Bomb.

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    I motherfucking watch it because it has so much motherfucking potential, you motherfucking idiot, in terms of action, animation and the possibility of expanding an Universe that made part of our childhood years ago

    It is a potential that the show so far refuses to fulfill, however there have been a lot of instances where its almost there

    Is that explanation too hard to understand for you, you motherfucking ashole? Cause either you agree with it or not, its the only one I will give you about this, you shithead

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    FCKING YEAH

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    Ko

  • SOMEONEWHOSDISSAPOINTED

    Yet his power up was momentary, the gap between his strength and Android 13’s wasn’t NEARLY as ridiculous as Goku’s and Jiren’s are, not even motherfucking CLOSE

    The Migatte no Goku’i was temporary, yeah, however its much more a state of mind / technique, rather than a power up, given the fact that the Ultra Instinct simple predicts the opponent’s movements by making the body react naturally to any increasing danger, the Genkidama absorption simply gave him a power boost

    The Migatte no Goku’i concept is interesting, yet the way Goku attained it and the horrible attempt at an ”explanation” for it, were the among the most ridiculous thing this show has done so far

  • Doobieastray

    what i mean is kaioken is also a speed boost, so ultra being a speed boost alone is dull. i think goku in ultra can also adapt and read other fighters movements in battle.

  • Koibito888

    Incorrect, Kaioken is an everything boost same as SSJ and every transformation like it with the only difference being it’s a technique. Ultra Instinct is the first thing to be purely a reaction/speed boost and it boosts him that much.

    It’s very unlikely that Goku can read movements better and adapt, that’s literally the opposite of fighting without thinking. The whole point is his body is reacting without him having to read his opponent and read them to figure out what to do to react, the body just does it automatically eliminating the time it takes to react by just doing so, ergo a reaction boost which makes him a lot faster than he was.

  • Doobieastray

    fighting without thinking is like hulk fighting and there being collateral damage. goku fighting without thinking is different than reacting without thinking. goku can read peoples movements and adapt but hes is doing it sub consciously.

  • BudokaiLimit

    So did saiyan island die?

  • Koibito888

    Ultra Instinct is moving without thinking, it is the technique Whis had been describing since the beginning this is a confirmed fact, and the technique Whis had described was based entirely around fighting without thinking.

    And the powerup was expressly credited to the Spirit Bomb crushing his energy. These are in series facts Whis specifically described this.

    It was said about Goku basically training with Beerus, that Goku was training while he was fighting and was getting better at SSJG as the fight went on.

    Assuming that Goku’s power will increase forever because it increased for a time is referred to as a no limits fallacy and is laughed at in the debate community. It is an invalid logic, limits are always to be assumed until shown broken. That statement was very much not the main point of the form even it was mentioned off hand and was not focused on for the rest of the fight. To take that moment and emphasize it so much as to say that it’s a form that just lets Goku keep growing forever is and removes limits a rather leap in logic and nothing hints that that continues forever without limit.

  • Ryumancer

    It took you nearly a week to reply with that garbage? Bet your mama’s real proud.

    Even Mayzed said more productive things about Super and he dislikes it for the most part as well. Haven’t seen one bit of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from you regarding the show. If you’re over 100 eps in and it isn’t up to your standards, it’s common sense to move the eff on.

  • Doobieastray

    this went from what happened in the anime to anime/manga/youtube and what the word is around the web lol

  • dbz

    this is more believable that the spirit bomb act as a energy rather than the spirit bomb powered him up after the spirit bomb exploded it would make sense that this is what could of made goku achieve his new form him surviving the spirit bomb is probably what powered him up

  • dbz

    xd

  • Anthony_weaver86

    No just sleeping

  • Christopher Cannon Jr.

    That’s what I was thinking, there’s been some news they’ve been messing out on.

    I guess most of em’ are busy.

  • Doobieastray

    sites like these are funded by ads(i may be wrong) so you may be right and saiyan island could be on the decline if they are not sponsored.

  • Doobieastray

    there are some essay long replys up in here haha

  • uhMayzedHD

    Never hurt to try I rather attempt seeing it fail and not trying at all.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Pretty much when you got other site talking about other animes and you want to keep up to date on your favorite show. I pretty sure everyone comes here watch more than Naruto, OP and Dragon Ball.

  • dbz

    your right

  • Koibito888

    The fact of the matter is that it is Goku’s body doing the movement separate from his mind. This point was stressed when Whis first discussed it, the body moving without thinking, it is the body doing it it is nothing about Goku’s mind or ability to read things or anything like that it is purely the body reacting on it’s own.

  • Doobieastray

    we already know whis told goku and vegeta how he is able to dodge their attacks during training.So ill say again i think ultra instinct is more then a speed boost imo and “the fact of the matter is” you used “fighting without thinking” to describe ultra instinct which confused me as i explained the difference. the ability to read peoples movement was a analogy to show what goku is doing in a practical sense.

  • Koibito888

    And how Whis told them he dodged attacks was then revealed to be ultra instinct so there you go.