Dragon Ball Super Episode 117 Spoilers

Posted on November 17, 2017

Warning: Dragon Ball Super Episode 117 Spoilers ahead

“Showdown of Love! The Androids vs Universe !!” is the title of Dragon Ball Super episode 117, which airs on November 26, 2017. In the episode, the android combo rescues our hero, Son Goku, who is stamina-drained after usage of his Ultra Instinct mode in his intense battle with Universe 6’s Kefla. Universe 2’s Ribrianne is targeting Goku, but 17 and 18 won’t allow it! 18 takes Goku’s place and challenges Ribrianne to a one-on-one battle, while 17 takes on Universe 2’s Rozie. Can the two androids prevail against the Universe 2’s strongest?

Elsewhere on the battlefield, Vegeta is tricking to mimic Goku’s Ultra Instinct by trying to act unconscious. Unfortunately, the Saiyan Prince fails and is hit by Universe 3’s Katopesla’s attack.

Dragon Ball Super Episode 117 Spoilers

Dragon Ball Super is streamed officially every week their is an episode in Japan on Crunchyroll and AnimeLab. The next episode, 116 (“The Signs of a Comeback! Ultra Instinct’s Huge Explosion!!”), is slated to be streamed on November 19, 2017 (when going by Japanese time). Since North America is a few hours behind Japan, it will be available to stream technically at night on Saturday, November 18, 2017.

Via Herms98

  • Yomi

    Ribrianne? more like Ribaenne.
    I hope Ribrianne kills Vegeta and Gohan in the same attack.

  • Navok76

    Is this a bait?

  • Bennet Jackson

    Why vegeta Is fooling around while fighting toppo.

  • Yomi

    I really want it to happen though.
    I can’t afford salt so I have to collect it somehow. I think if it happens I’ll have enough salt for a lifetime.

  • Di

    good question

  • Paul Watson

    Literally Everyone Just Wants Ribrianne Eliminated At This Point, lol.

  • Christopher Cannon Jr.

    I’m getting tired of Ribranne’s Teletubbie ass, 18’s the only one who can put an end to her nonsense.

  • Strider Xanthos

    So did everyone go from liking to hating Ribranne. I still like her, I just hate her goals for the Super Dragon Balls.

  • Meliodas

    if they have inifnite stamina, they can recharge GOKU to his maximum just like Frieza did. I hope they do it after kicking out these 2 U2 fighter

  • Meliodas

    Because it’s a fight between two number 2. Toppo is pretty strong and even in the manga, he is superior to Perfect SSB

  • Bennet Jackson

    Yeah I know but he copying of what Goku doing so no time to do that when Toppo try to attack him but it seem someone did.

  • Navok76

    Ask toei

  • Bennet Jackson

    I love too but I don’t have their contact.

  • Elliott Blair

    Vegeta is still the joke we all knew he was.

  • Elliott Blair

    Yeah, no where did it say he was superior. He caught goku while he was off guard being an idiot. That kick would have folded anyone at that moment.

  • jav253

    Never thought of that. We don’t know how energy transferring works but if that was a possibility they could have just let Goku go ham on everything in blue kaioken the whole time an recharge him. Forget all that conserving stamina crap lol.

  • Billy Townhouse

    I gotta catch up with DBS

  • Ahtma

    I don’t, so that doesn’t make for “literally everyone.”

  • Leo LeiGto

    Spoiler alert. The next episode is over after the Goku Kefla Scene. lol at least we will have 1/2 a good episode

  • Leo LeiGto

    Dont do it. Take your time. Its still way too early for it to even git gud. they are going to drag this sheet through new years and even after that they still wont be done with this arc.

  • Ryumancer

    We knew that already. Dumbass. -_-

  • Ryumancer

    He can do what he wants.

  • Ryumancer

    Uh, why DON’T you? She’s an annoying distraction.

  • KDG

    More like the writers continue to make a mockery of the one character who works harder than any one else, still manages to make time for his family, and is the only living mortal in his entire universe that could keep up with Goku’s constant progress, and often manages to beat him to the punch when it comes to training. If not for the ongoing desperate attempts to make Goku constantly eclipse every other supporting character around him, Vegeta would get the respect he is due. But as always, they have to make Goku look even better constantly by crapping on everything Vegeta does. Wouldn’t even let him adequately get his revenge on Frieza without him blowing up the planet so that Whis could rewind time and have Goku steal the spotlight. It’s quite sad and is definitely terrible writing the way Vegeta is treated.

  • Goku Black

    Bulma’s voice actress, Hiromi Tsuru, has died….

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Well Goku is the “main” character.

    His role is more substantial in terms of plot.

  • Ahtma

    She’s a wonderful subversion of magical girls. I love that her transformation takes her from a cute girl to a huge blubby strawberry and that she’s a legitimate contender.

  • Winston D Luffy

    Are you autistic? Probably so i wont call u a dumbass back for that rude behavior against Leo. What he said was unknown to me. I swear there are a lot of autistic people who try doing there best to be normal but you don’t even try bro just atleast pretend to be a nice person to others

  • KDG

    Goku’s role absolutely should be more substantial in terms of plot. I don’t think that justifies the way Vegeta, the second strongest fighter, is treated in the story. Arguably I’d say Vegeta’s longest awesome streak was on Namek prior to Goku’s arrival. Everything from then on has been more or less downhill for him, with a couple short-lived glory moments here and there. He hadn’t even been able to take out any major villains. Piccolo took down Raditz. Gohan killed Cell and ended a major arc. If you want to count filler, Gohan also took down Garlic Jr. and practically carried that entire mini-arc on his own. Trunks saved the future by going back home with his new power and demolishing Androids 17 and 18, and then Cell. In Super he even finished off Zamasu despite the lack of logic behind him having the power to take on the near-equivalent of Vegito Blue. Who did Vegeta defeat? Jeice and Android 19: two cowards.

    Vegeta is only slightly weaker than Goku at most points in the series, and stronger than everyone else on their team. Yet still, he has faced more embarrasing defeats than anyone else, despite his best efforts. He is almost always knocked unconscious in battle while everyone else around him is getting equally smacked around but staying in the fight.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Gasp oh no rip

  • Anthony_weaver86

    So I just saw JL and all I can say is he said the word (you’ll understand when you see the end of the battle) but, I’m surpr8se rotten tomatoes gave it a bad raring. Sure it wasn’t as good as Avengers but it was close, but I’m excited for DC now we can now have good movies from both sides now

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Perhaps it’s due to Toriyama’s dislike of him.

    I think he’s stated that he actually doesn’t like Vegeta at all.

  • Wally West

    You should ignore the opinions of those Old men and Bimbos who are not even Comic book fans. The movie was good and 7.5/10 in my opinion

  • KDG

    Yes, I’ve heard this before. Kind of defeats the purpose of even writing him if you ask me. For all that, he should have never brought Vegeta back when Frieza killed him. I just don’t see a point in creating a character, making him the second strongest, granting him arguably the most character development out of everyone in the entire cast, just to hate him and relentlessly abuse him.

  • Wally West

    Vegeta did defeat SSR Black in the manga

  • Wally West

    Maybe you should blame Toei for it’s shitty writing. DBS Manga Vegeta has been treated better lately

  • KDG

    I blame Toriyama for starting the trend.

  • SAB

    Lol, this anime isn’t for an intelligent audience.

  • SAB

    liking? I personally hated Ribrianne right from when she was introduced and I believe a lot of the fans feel the same.
    The character design is almost copied from teletubbies. Moreover, it doesn’t feel like a battle transformation, I mean why would a transformation make you bulky like a cushion. Such transformations should reduce speed by quite a bit like how super trunks was stronger but much slower than cell making the form useless.

  • Raftleon

    basically we already suspected this was case since goku used it.

    curious which of those two get the so called “perfect” form of UI.

    but seriously where’s that back story for jiren, will it be a manga thing only?

  • Wally West

    Not really, It was said that Ultra Instinct is even difficult for the Gods to obtain, so Vegeta failing in his first Attempt is not a bad thing and I wouldn’t call him stupid either going by this show’s logic cause Goku regained his stamina by fighting and was able to use Ultra Instinct again after getting K.O.-ed

  • Cibic

    Dude it was fans who rated the movie ..

  • Ryumancer

    He’s a bonafide hater of the DBS series and goes out of his way to verbally crap on it while putting GT on a shiny pedestal.

    He doesn’t like it, yet he continues to watch it. And we already have spoilers being fed to us by Saiyan Island (like on this page), and Geekdom (on YouTube).

    So when he says “spoiler alert” or some crap like that. He’s likely just spewing more meaningless crap from his mouth.

    But sure, defend a douchebag troll all you want. Takes one to befriend another I guess.

  • Ryumancer

    She’s not really a contender. She constantly gets swatted aside like a fly (not quite THAT easily, but still). And all she constantly keeps talking about are love and beauty, things that don’t really have much of a place in something as brutal and ugly as a fight can get.

    I don’t mind fighters from other universes getting screentime. But Ribrianne gets too much and she’s not even important to the plot.

  • Ryumancer

    I don’t even think he’s being treated that badly. He’s been getting more cred in Super than he ever did in GT or Z. He carried the U7 team in the U6 Tournament Arc (beating Magetta, Frost, and Cabba), 3 out of the 5 fighters total). His debut of SSB was epic as he beat the crap out of Frieza. And he got a good enough revenge beating against Black.

    I’d say Vegeta has been treated better than he ever did in the past.

  • Ryumancer

    Was Batfleck still epic enough? I know WW was still pretty good and the Flash did a well enough job from what I read in the reviews.

  • Wally West

    Yeah

  • Navok76

    Kishimoto also doesn’t like sasuke (the second strongest character in naruto) but at least he gave sasuke what he deserves. unlike Toriyama/Toei who made the second strongest character in DB look like a garbage.

  • Navok76

    I still admit that Masashi and Toriyama mistreated a lot of their characters but i am just comparing

  • Navok76

    If Beerus vs UI goku happened, i might watch it

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Heading to the Cinema right now to watch Justice League. #Hyped

  • Leo LeiGto

    Do I smell b%$tch and Salt?! Lel

  • Leo LeiGto

    False. As usual.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Lmao. U salty autist.

  • lolcatz6657

    I hope that movie does the series justice.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I know, that’s why I saw it.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    No need to worry. I’m just done watching and damn it’samazing! Definitely going in again. The final fight was epic too

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    That’s a good rating.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    The only thing that was disappointing in the JL movie is ( just like Spider-Man Homecoming )
    that a lot of scenes from the trailer were missing and I kept waiting for them 🙁

    And why the hell does Berry aka Flash run so weird? I love Flash he‘s in fact my favorite Superhero but come on, he doesn’t move like that

  • Rip Hiromi Tsuru, jap voice actor of bulma, rest in peace and thanks for all the fun times with dragonball.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Imo batman was a little off, he felt like spiderman trying to be dark……mainly spiderman 3

  • Only When Vince McMahon Dies™

    Well Beerus has UI as well, so it’d probably be just those 2 dodging each others attacks lol

  • Navok76

    Really? I remember that Vados said that UI form is hard to achieve even for GoDs. and i think toei can make it a good fight since they hinted for it in the last week episode.

  • Only When Vince McMahon Dies™

    In the manga Beerus used Ultra Instinct against the other Gods of Destruction chapters 28-29.
    Still don’t forget, just because you can use Ultra Instinct doesn’t make you an expert

  • Navok76

    there is a big difference between manga and anime, so idk if beerus will use it, and i think goku will master that form when he fights Jiren again

  • lolcatz6657

    I was actually trying to make a pun lol 😛 Wasn’t JK simmons in this one? How was his role/performance?

  • Ryumancer

    GTards like yourself don’t care either way.

    EDIT: And how is it false? That’s how an overwhelming majority of the audience feels.

  • Ryumancer

    So now you suddenly have something against people with mental disabilities now? lol

    Going against your own kind is the biggest type of betrayal. 😉

  • Ryumancer

    No, that’s the smell of the excrement coming out of your own mouth.

  • SAB

    do I smell sarcasm here?

  • SAB

    Beating 3 piccolo tier fighters is is not better treatment, quality matters not quantity. He couldn’t land a single punch on Hit even in blue, while Goku was able to dodge time skip in his base.

    > His debut of SSB was epic as he beat the crap out of Frieza. And he got a good enough revenge beating against Black.
    Yeah only to get killed by a Frieza who wasn’t even in his golden form and finally Goku’s kamehameha only made it worse. As for beating Goku Black, how long did that fight last? like 5min and then Goku Black again gets stronger courtesy “anger”.

    Z treated Vegeta much better. He was shown to be a very smart fighter in the Namek saga and the Android saga with pride being his worst weakness, which he overcame by the end of Buu saga, and he was the one who came up with the plan to beat Kid Buu.
    Since you pointed out GT, I think his character development was complete by the end of Z and so sidelining him was better than making a total mockery out of him like Super did but no point in debating this since GT isn’t canon.

  • SAB

    He was responsible for defeating kid buu since he came up with the spirit bomb idea so it isn’t wrong to say he ended the Buu saga.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Are you referring towards the end of the movie?

  • Ahtma

    Not at all.

  • Ahtma

    That’s another thing, she stands put in a good way. Also just being on the arena at all makes her a contender.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Just saw a beta for DB apsolon (a fan made db) and they have Goku with a new form, it looks sick.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Have fun and hope you like it

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Really puns lol

  • Anthony_weaver86

    If I may, he wasn’t all that in this seeing as he wasn’t focus much. And we all know his true passion is in spiderman

  • Anthony_weaver86

    May her soul rest

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Yeah

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Lol I thought it was funny but idk why he was running like that

  • Saiyan Soul

    Cause his name is Berry, didn’t you know they retconned his name to Berry Llama?

  • Ryumancer

    I see. Thanks for the info. I see you’re already in the yuletide spirit. lol

  • Ryumancer

    Being on the arena makes her a participant or a contestant. A contender sounds more like someone who actually has a chance of winning the whole thing, like Jiren, Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, and Toppo. MAYBE Gohan. And I can see the Androids making a last ditch play before the end. “Contender” doesn’t sound like something Ribrianne is. She can’t be taken seriously.

  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    Autocorrection ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • Ryumancer

    Vegeta was still somewhat weakened from his fight with Cabba and was going into his fight with Hit practically blind in terms of Hit’s abilities. Goku only countered Time-Skip from watching Hit’s fight with Vegeta. Also, Vegeta’s victories were NOT Piccolo-tier. Goku and Vegeta could beat Piccolo in base form easily since they’ve achieved godhood. Vegeta had to go Super Saiyan minimum against all three fighters. They’re far above Piccolo-tier.

    That Frieza thing wasn’t tailored to make Vegeta look bad. It was plot-induced stupidity. That happens to EVERY supporting character every now and then. If anything it was a damaging mark to Frieza for being such a coward.

    Vegeta was a moron in mid-Z outside of battle. He let Cell become perfect and became a Majin to aid in Buu’s revival specifically to fight Goku. He single-handedly placed Earth in jeopardy twice to suit his own selfish needs. As you mentioned, he finally acknowledged his bone-headed arrogance at the end of the Buu Saga and he changed his life after that. He became a tiny bit less arrogant, MUCH less stupid. And in Super he has become a more caring parent and husband. You also forget that Vegeta was the first among the Z Fighters to even so much as lay a FINGER on Beerus without training or a god form and was able to destroy the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at least twice and come out of there easily. Vegeta has some amazing feats in Super that were nowhere near duplicated in Z or GT.

    We agree, GT is practically irrelevant.

  • Leo LeiGto

    lel. salty.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Where in my comment does it point to me having problems with autistic kids ? I guess the only one I have an issue with is you… You are confusing me. lel. Betrayal? Of what exactly? haha connect those thoughts please.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Lol. What are you saying? GTards? Why do you keep mentioning mental disabilities? Are you projecting? GT has SS4. SS4 is cool. What brought up your hatred for GT? I think GT ended a while ago. now we have slow episodes of Super. These last 2 have been great. I am ready for some filler with androids vs queen of love.( completely irrelevant) Ryumancer lol. Do you raise countless ryus from the dead to be in your “special” army?

  • Leo LeiGto

    Ya his running hand flailing was a little strange. but honestly have YOU EVER RAN IN THE SPEED FORCE SLIP STREAM??!??! Maybe you would run like that? ¯_(ツ)_/¯ hahahah

  • SAB

    Lol why are you and @leoleigto:disqus fighting?
    If he likes GT, that’s his choice. Why are you triggered?
    Sure GT isn’t canon but that doesn’t mean it has a bad plot and that everyone should hate it.

  • Leo LeiGto

    All your comments bro. Meaningless crap to cope with your meaningless existence.

  • KDG

    Seems the fate of Universe 6 now rests in the hands of two Namekians who are having trouble taking out Gohan and Piccolo. Universe 6 might as well erase itself.

  • Larry E. Powe Jr.

    we’ll always remember the voice of Bulma Briefs: Hiromi Tsuru, in our hearts.
    R.I.P. Hiromi Tsuru.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I hope im not sounding like a hater but, DB will not and cannot be the same without her

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Man even though JL was a great DC hero team film it’s still not getting enough credit, or money. And I get the reason why due to Thor but still

  • Wally West

    Not really, I was referring to those non fans especially.

  • KDG

    Vegeta came up with the plan to defeat Kid Buu. He hadn’t executed the plan himself, but rather he gave everyone their specific role in order to pull it off. I don’t count that, seeing as everyone else who ended a saga actually actively killed the enemy. As Vegeta did not administer the killing blow, I can’t really give Kid Buu to him.

    Vegeta was only outclassed by Goku during the duration of the Majin Buu Saga, which probably didn’t matter all that much since they both spent the majority of it dead. He was still the second strongest for most of the saga, unless you count Gotenks – which I don’t given that he is a fusion character and can only last for a maximum time limit of 30 minutes (less at Super Saiyan 3). Vegeta was briefly outclassed by Gohan, but we all saw how well that worked out for him in the end. Other than that, it has always been a back-and-forth battle for the strongest between Goku and Vegeta, with Vegeta surpassing him at brief intervals at a time. No one else has been able to consistently keep up with Goku’s increases in power, at least not through sheer training alone. Piccolo briefly bridged the gap through reuniting with Kami, and Gohan through having his dormant power unlocked by the Elder Kai.

    I have to disagree (as I believe most people will) that Vegeta was not mistreated in Z. As for Super, I think he’s being treated slightly better than he’s ever been, although I definitely feel he got shafted during the Future Trunks Saga. Granted he did have a brief half-episode of kicking Black’s ass, and that was nice. But he should have been the one to finish Black off instead of Trunks. It would have been nice to, for once, witness Vegeta actually saving the life of his son by defeating his greatest foe, and I think he was entitled to that much. Besides, it made absolutely no sense that Trunks, who at best was Super Saiyan 3-tier at the time to just suddenly not only gain a unique power up that boosted him to god-tier, but even so much so that it surpassed Goku and Vegeta who had been training with an actual God of Destruction and his Angel. And despite him having carried Universe 7 in the first tournament by defeating 3 weaklings, I felt that even if the main event came down to Goku vs. Hit, Vegeta should have at least did better against Hit rather than having lost to him so easily. If it were Gohan, chances are it would have been a somewhat close fight.

    And yes, admittedly my last statement was influenced by Vegeta’s role in the movies. While they may not be canon and thus have no bearing on the story itself, they are still DBZ and they repeat a trend of Vegeta being constantly and almost effortlessly knocked unconscious in battle while everyone else is giving their all, including the fighters who are significantly weaker than him.

  • Ahtma

    The Tournament of Power is also based on time. Ribrianne may not be a power player bit she’s definitely one of the more powerful individuals still on the arena and more importantly has excellent survivability.

  • Ryumancer

    Using “autistic” as a synonym for “stupid” or something like that most likely. Seems quite common. Don’t know why.

  • Ryumancer

    You’re not quite the one to talk on that front.

  • Ryumancer

    He’s being a usual GTarded troll and keeps ragging on something he seemingly doesn’t like even though he keeps watching it JUST to rag on it some more while putting something that was mostly panned and MUCH shorter run on a higher pedestal. That kind of thing.

  • Ryumancer

    A “GTard” is someone that meaninglessly attacks “Super” for no reason while putting GT, a series that’s no better by ANY means, on a higher pedestal. So yeah, you are a GTard.

    Never said SS4 sucked. GT in general sucked. SS4 was one of its saving graces. Same with a couple of the Shadow Dragons. But that’s it. Pan was a meaningless nuisance, Majuub was terrible and all Vegeta was used for was fodder and fusion fuel. That’s why so many people joke that GT is short for “Goku Time”. Why were Trunks and Goten even mentioned? -_-

    It has nothing to do with the dead. It didn’t have “necro” in the title. You can read, right?

  • Ryumancer

    I’d count Ribrianne’s survivability to PIS to tell you the truth.

  • Ryumancer

    And truthful.

  • Ryumancer

    It’s only because how rocky the DCEU’s start was.

    I for one liked Man of Steel. But I see why BvS was hated so much. Same with Suicide Squad. And Jared Leto’s Joker was such a letdown. Wonder Woman seemingly went well (haven’t watched it yet). And hopefully Justice League got enough good press to help it keep chugging along.

    The DCEU has a horrible problem with plot and pacing. If it can overcome that, as well as certain casting issues (looking at you Jesse Eisenberg), then I can see it improving.

  • uhMayzedHD

    I love how SI isn’t talking about it yet other anime website is.

  • Ryumancer

    Well imagine what it’ll be like when Goku’s voice actress croaks. The West won’t care that much but Japan would likely be in tears.

  • uhMayzedHD

    Dragon Ball voice actor dying this is sad we lost Korin and Bulma a sad day for anime fans out there. Their should been 5sec condolences in episode 116 for Hiromi Tsuru

    Dragon Ball needs to end if this keep their won’t be anyone Original left the day Sean Christian Schemmel dies going really going hurt a lot people like myself because I can’t see no one else voicing Goku.

  • Cam TexasBoy Perry

    we all know Goku will be the first perfect. toei is literally telling us it is coming especially with this episode waking up Jiren.

  • SAB

    >Vegeta was only outclassed by Goku during the duration of the Majin Buu Saga.
    I disagree. Ever since Goku came out of the Hyperbolic time chamber in Cell saga, Vegeta never surpassed him. And of course Majin Buu Saga is important lol it took up almost 1/3rd DBZ. He may have been the second strongest Z fighter but the difference in power is that between a SSJ2 and SSJ3, you have to accept that he was totally outclassed.

    >Other than that, it has always been a back-and-forth battle for the strongest between Goku and Vegeta, with Vegeta surpassing him at brief intervals at a time.
    Vegeta surpassed Goku only one time in DBZ and that too because he trained in the Time Chamber before Goku. There was never a back and forth battle for the strongest between Goku and Vegeta. Goku had always been stronger.

    > As for Super, I think he’s being treated slightly better than he’s ever been.
    Lol the rest of your 3rd paragraph totally contradicts your claim. It might sound harsh but IMO Vegeta has had ZERO influence on the plot of DBS. If you think I am wrong please point out at least one instance where his actions led to a major plot development. That is a LOT of bad treatment for probably the second most important character of Dragon ball series.

  • Sean im not so worried about, but chris ayers frieza barely frigging pulled through thanks to donations from fans

  • SAB

    I wrote a bigger answer to this twice but both times it got marked as spam lol so i’ll have to be quite brief here.
    1. Goku countering time skip in his base is weird. Hit is an SSB tier fighter and there is no way he couldn’t read goku’s punches.If goku countered it in SSB it would have made more sense. Achieving god-hood doesn’t mean a stronger base form as evidenced from Vegeta vs Cabba. So I disagree that the fighters are far above Piccolo.
    2. If frieza’s incident is plot-induced stupidity, then so is Vegeta being able to attack beerus as a mere SSJ2 in BoG.
    3. Goku gave energy to Frieza, Gohan toyed with Cell leading to Goku’s death, Goku gave Cell a senzu, and in Super, Goku offered golden frieza to go and train despite knowing Frieza’s really high potential to get stronger; didn’t all of those put the entire Universe at risk? and LOL destroying the time chamber? what is there to destroy in the Time chamber other than the entrance? Even Piccolo did that in Majin buu saga.
    At no point in DBS did Vegeta’s actions have an influence on the plot maybe except Cabba turning SSJ. Although he became stronger he was totally useless in DBS. Hence my point.

  • BatmanDaGAWD

    sabbat too, luckily they’re still young, but Goku’s jap voice , is literally an old woman who screams for a living.

  • BatmanDaGAWD

    true they grew up w/ her

  • SAB

    The term “GTard” should have no relevance considering how bad DBS storyline is (only the anime). You can be polite to him in the least or simply ignore him if you think he is a troll.

  • SAB

    The funniest part was when they SWORE to defeat all U7 fighters lol.

  • Navok76

    Idk, the godpad didn’t show that hit is eliminated

  • OMEGABOSSKING

    May she rest in peace 🙁

  • Only When Vince McMahon Dies™

    Whis already confirmed it both in the manga and RoF arc. He said Beerus didn’t master it but could use it.

    I kinda doubt it, he’ll have the defensive UI mastered but the offensive seems to compliment Vegeta more. Plus if he mastered it already then UI was over hyped because this is supposed to be something the Gods couldn’t even master. Literally minutes have passed since Goku v Jiren round 1 lol.

  • Ryumancer

    The manga can be just as bad if not worse so that part was pointless to say.

    Trolls don’t deserve politeness.

  • Ryumancer

    1. It actually kinda does. Cabba was merely able to match Vegeta’s base strength. Not to mention a weakened Frost still would’ve beaten Piccolo easily without the poison and the lengthy buildup for the Special Beam Cannon.

    2. It would count as such if it were an outlier or isolated incident. But asspulls are a popular and often utilized weapon among Saiyans.

    3. Goku gave Cell the senzu so that Cohan would be properly pushed. If Cell were weakened, Gohan wouldn’t have felt hopeless and angry enough to go SSJ2. It was practically Goku’s plan from the beginning. Goku likely knew Frieza wouldn’t take such an offer to begin with.

    4. You do realize that the space inside the chamber stretches for an eternity, right? That’s a universe busting feat right there. He didn’t just destroy the entrance, he destroyed everything inside it. And he’s done that multiple times.

    Saying he’s totally useless in Super instantly cripples any point you would’ve had to begin with.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Gather the Dragonballs

  • Anthony_weaver86

    That is true, they would go crazy. It’s like what if the voice actors of Spike from cowboy bepob passed away………..no no no that cannot happen

  • Menacing~~~

    Die.

  • Menacing~~~

    I’m about 90% sure it’s sarcasm but if it’s not lets just say this. Her survivability relies on people not taking her seriously and throwing her out. When she landed near Jiren, Jiren literally could’ve picked her up, walked to the edge of the arena, gently let go off her and she wouldn’t have been able to do a thing.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    MOS was a good no great superman film, fans were just retarded and didn’t like change. SS and BVS were terrible tho

  • Ryumancer

    You mean the neck break scene? I agree.

  • Ahtma

    Good fortune is still a facet. Also you’re 90% wrong because I’m being totally serious.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    That was awesome, and fans fail to realise Superman has killed ppl and let some ppl die if Louis was in danger

  • Ryumancer

    Very true. I was tired of the big blue boy scout that Supes was constantly portrayed as.

  • Ryumancer

    Hell, a flawed Superman is a RELATABLE Superman.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    They (DC fans) don’t want that they want a goodie g9d like superman

  • KDG

    Hit was eliminated by Jiren right after he kicked Goku’s ass. Hit was gone before the Saiyans. Needless to say, it’s been a rough couple of episodes for Universe 6. It’s down to the two Namekians.

  • Ryumancer

    They must be boring af in real life.

  • KDG

    Yeah, I’m not sure why they believe they’re going to defeat Universe 7, whose four strongest fighters are still active in the arena. I’m surprised Frieza hasn’t decided to torture them for nostalgia’s sake. He seemed to enjoy himself on Namek until Goku stopped him.

  • PurexedSolitude;

    Wonder Woman was fantastic.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Yeah this superman kinda reminds me of the one in JL animated series

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Dude they eat meat loaf and mash potatoes of course they’re boring AFG, they’re basic b*tches

  • KDG

    It wasn’t back and forth? Vegeta was arguably stronger than Goku during the Saiyan Saga. If you measure Goku’s Kaioken (his personal multiplier) against Vegeta’s Oozaru form (Vegeta’s multiplier), Vegeta comes out on top. Had he not been outnumbered and had his tail cut off, Goku was a dead man. Then Goku outclassed Vegeta on Namek, and that lasted a couple years until Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan. At that point, even if it was only slightly, Vegeta’s power surpassed Goku’s. Then he further passed him after training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. When Goku emerged, he had surpassed Vegeta, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say he outclassed him necessarily, as they had both achieved a similar level of power which was still weaker than Cell. Goku outclassed Vegeta entirely throughout the Majin Buu Saga, but regardless of how many episodes that entails, it was still one saga that lasted a matter of days, maybe even a week or two, and they were both highly inactive during that time anyway. Vegeta then surpassed Goku again for a brief period during the Future Trunks Saga. It has always been a back-and-forth battle between the two of them.

    In regards to Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta has not had much influence on the plot, but he’s absolutely had more success, character development in regards to his personal relationships with his wife and child(ren), and epic moments. I don’t think my third paragraph contradicts my claim at all. I merely stated two fairly minor instances where I felt Vegeta could have been given more justice. He didn’t have a horrible role in the Future Trunks Saga, but I do think he should have been the one to end Zamasu instead of Trunks. Other than that, he was pretty bad-ass throughout that saga, and did put the first real good beating on Black. I think he could have been given a better fight against Hit, but he did have three consecutive wins when things weren’t looking great for Team Beerus. All in all, I think Vegeta has suffered significantly less humiliation in Super than he had in Z, has developed a bit more as a character, and has consistently kept up with Goku’s leaps in power to maintain their iconic rivalry with less hostility and disdain.

    Also, I honestly just type long replies and post them. Disqus has never given me an issue about it, or marked my posts as spam for whatever reason.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    So who was your favorite in the JL movie, mines were flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman

  • SAB

    Kaioken is a technique Goku learnt. Oozaru is not a technique, it is only a transformation and Vegeta had the upper hand only because he had a tail. If Goku too had his tail Goku’s oozaru would be stronger than that of Vegeta because base Goku was beating base Vegeta.
    >Then Goku outclassed Vegeta on Namek, and that lasted a couple years until Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan. At that point, even if it was only slightly, Vegeta’s power surpassed Goku’s.
    Goku had been an SSJ for at least 4 years now. I still don’t see why Vegeta SSJ was stronger than Goku SSJ. If it is mentioned anywhere then please let me know. All I noticed is Goku was losing to #19 only due the heart virus.
    >but I wouldn’t go as far as to say he outclassed him necessarily
    Even Vegeta was shocked to see Goku’s strength when he came out of the time chamber. Besides, seeing how each of them fared against Perfect Cell it is clear that Goku outclasses Vegeta. In the manga Vegeta even admits that he couldn’t surpass Goku during the cell games.
    > Vegeta then surpassed Goku again for a brief period during the Future Trunks Saga.
    Kaioken times 20 SSB…..
    >absolutely had more success, character development in regards to his personal relationships with his wife and child(ren), and epic moments.
    He sacrificed himself (although it was in vain) for his family in Buu Saga what can be better character dev than that?. Beating 3 weaklings using a mere SSJ and being toyed with in SSB isn’t success, it’s mockery.
    >I think Vegeta has suffered significantly less humiliation in Super than he had in Z
    DBS is the era of SSG/SSB, Hit and SSR Goku Black toyed with SSB Vegeta in their first fights. Sure Vegeta gave GB a good beating, but it lasted for 5min at most and then GB discovers anger as a source of power and again outclasses Vegeta.
    Vegeta fought a defeated Golden Frieza who was almost out of power, and still had to end up dead if it wasn’t for Whis.
    In Z Vegeta had much better moments such as beating Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, Jeice, #19, Semi-Perfect Cell, rivaling Goku SSJ2 although it was due to the Majin boost, his fight against Buu was also decent.

  • Steven Zimmerman

    steppenwolf

  • SAB

    1. Not sure what you are trying to say here. Cabba clearly was as strong as Vegeta base watch the episode again. Piccolo was gaining the upper hand against frost in the fight.

    2.I don’t care whether it was or wasn’t an asspull but it clearly showed Vegeta in a bad light.

    3. Did you watch the episode? Gohan only became SSJ2 due to Cell’s greed to see Gohan’s full power. Piccolo even convinced Goku to go back and fight Cell because rather than getting angry, he was getting beaten to pulp by cell. As for Frieza, he literally begged Goku for his life. I don’t see how Goku knew Frieza wouldn’t take an offer like that.

    4. Only it doesn’t. It’s only the size of earth you can refer to the manga when Goku and Gohan enter the time chamber.

    Saying he is totally useless in DBS only strengthens my claim that he was treated much better in Z than in Super, and I believe that was what started off our debate.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    He did look pretty cool, just wish he had more development but even in tge comics he didn’t have that much info

  • SAB

    The grand priest declared Hit to be eliminated, I think that’s more than enough proof.

  • Ryumancer

    1. All Piccolo was doing was dodging while charging up his Special Beam Cannon. He was depending on that to take Frost out. He didn’t have any upper hand to speak of.

    2. It showed MORE than Vegeta in a bad light if anything, not JUST Vegeta. Frieza and Goku would be in that party as well.

    3. Did YOU watch the whole damn part of the arc? Goku gave Cell the senzu so that Cell would push Gohan harder more easily. Arguably, all Piccolo did was put doubt in Goku’s mind. While what Piccolo said was indeed the truth, Goku’s plan ended up working anyway.

    4. The breathable atmosphere is as far and wide as Earth. It can go farther than that, it just wouldn’t be habitable (as little inhabitability that the chamber in general has). Besides, Vegeta destroyed the chamber as well as the door back to Earth. He still somehow emerged back at the lookout. That’s practically a dimensional feat.

    There’s not really a debate when you don’t have a decent point. It doesn’t strengthen jack crap considering he smacked Beerus around for a short time without a god form, solo’d most of the U6 team, and dished out decent revenge beatings on both Frieza and Black. In Z he was tortured to a slow death by Frieza, had his arm busted by 18, his spine elbowed in by Cell (after letting him obtain his perfect form), humiliated by a Cell Junior (couldn’t finish it beyond a stalemate), and had the tar beaten out of him by several forms of Buu (Fat, Super and Kid).

    He’s been beaten up less in Super and has had more solid victories. Saying he was treated better in Z is quite frankly going against common sense.

  • Ryumancer

    Yeah, they’re done. I wonder what Champa’s last words to Beerus will be. Same with Cabba and Vegeta.

  • Ryumancer

    Yeah but to be fair, Animated Series Superman was okay. He didn’t have ridiculous plot armor and asspulls like his comic book counterpart. And the JL/JLU animated series gave other characters the spotlight quite often.

  • Ryumancer

    As long as Aquaman wasn’t some caucasian weirdo in tights talking to fish. XD

    In all seriousness, Jason Momoa looks badass.

  • jay

    His voice his look and the fact he never had any silly comedic phrases made him a great villain. Would have been better if superman wasn’t so overpowered lol

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Lol I actually wanted to see him command the sea creatures with his will, but he needs the sea for that. But I do believe this Aquaman was more believable than blonde boy

  • Anthony_weaver86

    A lot of the fans complained about him being weak in MOS and BVS

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Just like in this movie everyone had their spot light, and slowly starting off as a family. That was one of the things i liked about JLTAS compare to the Avengers, JL were a form of family while Avengers were a bunch of super friends (not that version tho lol)

  • KDG

    Doesn’t matter. Vegeta vowed to wish back Universe 6. They’ll be back soon enough.

  • KDG

    Not to mention in every scene where Cabba is commenting on the sidelines about Kefla and Goku’s fight, you can see a clearly battered Hit sitting right behind him. And the fact that we literally watched Jiren ring Hit all the way out.

  • SAB

    I didn’t mention that point because he could argue that Hit’s physical body is actually in the ring, like how his image was away from his body when he fought Goku during the filler.

  • SAB

    1. Ok, maybe not Piccolo tier just coz you say so, but no more than SSJ1 tier and that still shows vegeta did nothing extraordinary.
    2. I don’t care about Frieza or Goku, I am only talking about vegeta, you have agreed that Vegeta was shown in a bad light, so the argument is done.
    3. Goku said he wanted the fight to be FAIR, please go watch the episode first and stop making too many assumptions about Goku’s thoughts.
    4. Not sure where you are taking this Toei animation crap to, but even buu and gotenks performed a “dimensional feat”.

    I have a perfectly valid point. You are the one making up ridiculous stuff to defend DBS so yeah it’s not really a debate.
    > dished out decent revenge beatings on both Frieza and Black
    Frieza was defeated by Goku, he was out of energy when Vegeta stepped in, and what happened then, did he kill Frieza? NOO he got killed instead!! until Whis intervened that is. (now don’t try to justify this by “frieza did a cowardly thing” stuff, that was the plot and Vegeta WAS treated badly there)
    His fight against GB was nothing special. I already told you in a previous reply that GB got stronger in no time despite Vegeta trained for an year but you still brought up the point again.

    In Z vegeta lost because he was weaker, in Super he is losing badly despite being strong enough to at least weaken the opponent. He doesn’t even damage the opponent enough that would help Goku finish off the opponent. Saying he was treated better in Super is quite frankly going against common sense.

  • KDG

    Learned technique or not, the fact is Oozaru is a power multiplier just as Kaioken is. And whether or not Goku would have the upper hand if he had a tail is irrelevant because the fact is he did not have a tail. Plus there is something to be said for the fact that Vegeta was the only known Saiyan who could control his mental state and retain his personality while in that form. So while it may not be a learned technique, it likely took considerable training to be able to consciously control the Oozaru form. Also it didn’t really seem like Goku’s base was stronger than Vegeta’s seeing as he relied heavily on multiplying his base power using Kaioken throughout the fight, even down to using 4x Kaioken to give his Kamehameha Wave the boost he needed to overpower Vegeta’s Gallick Gun. With zero multipliers being utilized, there is no doubt in my mind Vegeta would have came out on top in that fight.

    While Goku may have had four years more experience as a Super Saiyan, Vegeta definitely trained relentlessly to reach it. As Super Saiyan is only a multiplier, Vegeta’s base power had clearly passed Goku’s during his training, hence his Super Saiyan form was more powerful. Remember, it took Goku two Zenkai Boosts and a week of gravity training in a spaceship to achieve the minimum required base power to unlock Super Saiyan. Compare that to Vegeta, whose base power was considerably high at the time of his death and resurrection, training almost non-stop for four years, at least three of which were spent gravity training, and god knows how many Zenkai Boosts during the course of those three years training in gravity and in space, and it makes perfect sense that Vegeta would have passed Goku, even if just for a brief moment in time. Also factor in the fact that Vegeta spent those three years of preparing for the androids focusing on nothing but training himself to pass Goku, while Goku spent his time sparring to get Gohan stronger, spending time here and there with his family, etc. Vegeta had no such distractions, nor was he spending time lowering his own power to train a little boy. As far as where it is mentioned, I believe it was after Vegeta obliterated Android 19 and sent Doctor Gero hauling ass for his life that Piccolo mentions that he believes Vegeta is now more powerful than Goku. Also, if you take time to compare the fights, you should conclude that while Goku mainly lost to Android 19 due to the heart virus attacking him and sapping his strength, he did in fact start off that fight at 100%. Transforming and battling only increased the speed of his blood flow, causing the virus to act faster, but from the beginning he was fighting unhindered and still caused no substantial damage to 19. Vegeta literally took Android 19 out with five attacks. That alone should illustrate the difference in power they displayed.

    I don’t think Goku outclassed Vegeta during the Cell Saga. Yes, Vegeta was surprised by how powerful Goku had become, and Goku definitely surpassed Vegeta. But what I mean by he didn’t outclass him necessarily is that they were still pretty much even in tier. Perhaps it’s merely a difference in perception. My idea of outclassing is Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in comparison to Goku or Vegeta during the Cell Games; neither could even hope to lay a finger on him. In regards to Goku and Vegeta at this time, Goku was clearly stronger than Vegeta, but they were still in the same power tier, and all it would take is a little bit of training for Vegeta to bridge the gap, not like needing an entirely new transformation with a higher multiplier to even have a chance against him.

    Kaioken x20 Super Saiyan Blue is powerful and all, but it’s only a temporary multiplier that cannot be sustained for long. While Goku may have had Kaioken x20 Super Saiyan Blue in his arsenal, Vegeta’s base power was clearly higher than Goku’s during his second fight against Black.

    I agree that Vegeta’s sacrifice was definitely some much-needed character development for him, but not only was it entirely in vain, but it also came several episodes after he murdered a couple hundred people, with the explosion from his second blast fired into the bleachers of the arena only reaching a couple feet short of killing his wife. In Dragon Ball Super we see a much more domesticated and family-oriented side of Vegeta, spending time with his son, making sacrifices to please his wife, proving she’s not just the mother of his children, but also very clearly the love of his life. He is literally never seen once showing Bulma even an ounce of affection in Dragon Ball Z, yet in Super we have him relentlessly attacking a God of Destruction and even being the first to land a successful and effective blow on him in defense of “his Bulma.” We also see Vegeta turning down the opportunity to participate in an exhibition match against Universe 9 because he refuses to leave Bulma’s side when she’s close to giving birth to his daughter. This is a huge difference between the Vegeta of Dragon Ball Z who never really showed any care or concern for Bulma, nor any care for his own son until he watches Cell blast a gaping hole through his chest. In fact during Z, Vegeta spent his entire year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber completely avoiding his son and focusing entirely on his own personal training, even stating that he trains alone. In Super, we have Vegeta being willing to swallow his pride and request training from Whis, something that the Vegeta of Z would NEVER do. Dragon Ball Super has tons of development for Vegeta’s character. So while he has minimal influence on the overall plot, Vegeta has absolutely seen nothing but character development throughout the series, and has even grown to get along with Goku a bit more, or at the very least can stomach his presence without wanting to kill him. I can agree that Vegeta had better moments killing Cui, Zarbon, and the rest of Frieza’s men, but as I said before, pre-Goku Namek was easily Vegeta’s best and most ruthless era. Most of Z from that point on was full of disappointments, humiliation, and short-lived glory.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Original blond aquaman was not too bad. And all super heroes wear tights. where are you going with this? lel. Khal Drogo is a bad ass though. Too bad they gave him a pitch fork instead of an actual TRIDENT> pitchfork.

  • KDG

    Maybe, but we definitely watched Hit lose, either way.

    On a side note, I find the difference in how Universes 6 and 7 did in this tournament amusing. While Universe 7 has so far only lost its 3 weakest fighters, Universe 6 over the course of the past month or so worth of episodes have lost all of their strongest warriors back to back, starting with Frost, Hit, Cabba, and then Caulifla and Kale. Champa’s luck rapidly ran out.

  • SAB

    Woah!! huge replies scare me off bro (i’m 100% serious). Anyways back to the topic, I’ll reply to each paragraph it’s simpler than quoting:
    P1. Kaioken is a multiplier technique which has limitations such as taking a huge toll on the body once used while Oozaru doesn’t. Using kaioken is justified IMO because it is balancing technique i.e. you lose something to gain that temperory multiplier. Moreover once vegeta lost his tail, both don’t have tails so now goku > vegeta. I think all the saiyans on planet vegeta can control their Oozaru forms, because their duty is only to clean up planets and put them up for sale. They aren’t supposed to damage the planet and that requires proper mind control. If the other saiyans cannot control Oozaru, then how do they transform back without getting their tails chopped?

    P2. I need proof that vegeta’s base power was > goku’s. There is no minimum power to unlock SSJ as evidenced from goten and trunks. Then you said vegeta had no distractions for 3 years, then How was Trunks born LOL!!?? (ofc ignore this), but goku too trained for 3 years. And I think Goku kind of training is more effective as evidenced from the Time chamber.
    Coming to #19 no goku never starts at 100%, he often drags the fight unlike vegeta. Apart from that, if you notice closely goku’s sweating started before he transformed into an SSJ. Piccolo said Vegeta MAY be stronger he wasn’t sure.

    P3. So you acknowledge that goku was stronger. So post Saiyan saga infact once vegeta lost his tail, there was only one point in DBZ when Vegeta surpassed goku.

    P4. You needed Oozaru to show vegeta was stronger when goku didn’t have a tail., and now you don’t want kaioken here just because vegeta cannot use it? that’s a double standard. In fact vegeta can learn kaioken if he wants to but goku couldn’t grow a tail. So I think comparing Kaioken with base form is justified.

    P5. All of Vegeta you see in DBS is merely the outcome of the development that happened in Z. He fused with goku in the first place for “his bulma”. Super itself gave vegeta no development. Vegeta had swallowed his pride once he said “You are #1” to goku. Since then a whole new vegeta was born and that is what is being seen in DBS.

  • KDG

    I’m not sure why I can’t see your reply here, but in response to your latest reply:

    1. Once Vegeta lost his tail, Goku was only stronger than him in that he had a multiplier technique and Vegeta no longer had one. Without that, Vegeta’s base power without Oozaru was clearly stronger than Goku’s base power without Kaioken. The only reason Goku ever had an upper hand in that entire battle was due to constantly multiplying his maximum base power by abusing Kaioken. He had been utilizing it from the very beginning. As I previously stated, in the absence of all multiplying techniques (Kaioken and Oozaru), Vegeta was clearly the stronger fighter. His decision to transform into an Oozaru in the first place was a direct response to being overpowered by Goku’s Kaioken. It is pretty much commonly accepted that Vegeta is the only one capable of fully controlling himself in the Oozaru state, as seen from Goku and Gohan who both instantly go insane due to the Oozaru form’s primitive mind taking over, as well as seen from the Bardock movie in which Bardock’s team in the very beginning are discussing how they are all incapable of remembering anything during their transformations (with the exception of Bardock). It can also be seen in scenes of the Oozaru form Saiyans ravaging planets. At no point do they even appear to be in control of this, nor do they display the ability to talk. Vegeta is the only one to be shown without such limitations. As for how they’re able to revert without the removal of their tails, their transformation stops once the full moon is no longer in sight. This is also confirmed in Dragon Ball when Master Roshi blows up the moon, and in the filler episode where Gohan transforms until Piccolo is able to blow up the moon, causing Gohan to lose consciousness after reverting, and affording Piccolo the opportunity to remove his tail.

    2. There is no “proof”, as power levels stopped being displayed. But it is also commonly accepted that Vegeta had surpassed Goku at this point. It is also evidenced in all that transpired up until Goku emerged from the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Piccolo has pretty keen senses. If Piccolo speculates that Vegeta is stronger than Goku, it’s because he probably is. Piccolo had also previously trained with Goku during the three years. It would make sense that Piccolo knows what Goku is capable of, or at least have a rough estimate of Goku’s maximum power. That said, he clearly sensed a greater power in Vegeta, otherwise he wouldn’t have even bothered to mention it. As for Goku’s sweating, chances are he started at 100%. Knowing what was at stake if he lost, and sensing that something was clearly wrong and possibly sapping his stamina, I highly doubt Goku wouldn’t have started that fight giving it his all when he knew none of his friends came close to his strength.

    3. After losing his tail, I’m pretty sure there were several instances in which Vegeta surpassed Goku, as I’ve stated a couple of those instances. One could argue that while Goku was laid up in the hospital with a broken body prior to departing for Namek, Vegeta’s Zenkai Boost likely put his power higher than Goku’s. It’s already pretty evident that his base power was stronger than Goku’s to begin with, otherwise there would be no reason for Goku to have heavily relied on Kaioken during his fight with Vegeta. His power continued to rise as he was wiping out Frieza’s forces one by one, while Goku was out of commission. Vegeta passed Goku again when he became a Super Saiyan, then widened the gap when he became Super Vegeta. After that, Vegeta consistently remained weaker than Goku until Dragon Ball Super. But he absolutely had his moments where he was stronger than Goku, as short-lived as they may have been.

    4. I used Oozaru to show how Vegeta’s multiplier gave him significantly greater power than Goku’s multiplier. The absence of both multipliers still arguably puts Vegeta at a higher power as evidenced by the fact that Goku had to rely on Kaioken throughout their entire fight pre-Oozaru. As for not comparing Kaioken x20 Super Saiyan Blue to Vegeta in the given example of when Vegeta surpassed Goku during the Future Trunks Saga is because I’m speaking in terms of base power. Vegeta clearly surpassed Goku in strength, multipliers aside. Comparing Kaioken to base power absolutely is no more fair than comparing Super Saiyan to base, as all Kaioken does is multiply one’s maximum power just as Super Saiyan does, albeit with painful physical repercussions on the body.

    5. I wouldn’t go as far as to say Vegeta fused with Goku for “his Bulma,” as it was mainly because Goku talked some sense into Vegeta and made him understand that pride aside, their fusion was literally their only hope of surviving and even rescuing their sons who couldn’t even die, as they had become a part of Majin Buu. Bulma was already as dead as Vegeta. There was really nothing he could do for her at that point short of wishing her back to life, but Trunks’ fate was much worse.

    PS: My apologies for the long replies. It’s a habit of mine to be as thorough as possible when explaining something or debating. I often end up typing whole paragraphs within moments.

  • SAB

    P1. Vegeta did lose his tail permanently so post losing tail goku>vegeta. I am including kaioken because in Kaioken, in exchange for a temporary powerup a lot of pressure is exerted on the body. It’s more of a “get something in exchange for something else” technique.
    P2. On a lighter note, Vegeta did have distractions lol which is why Trunks was born. That aside there is no minimum base power to unlock ssj as evidenced from goten and trunks. Also, goku wasn’t at 100% against #19. He always drags on a fight while Vegeta’s fighting style is to beat his opponent quickly. If you notice closely Goku began sweating even before transforming into SSJ which means the virus already started to attack him but he thought he was only tired. I also think the Goku kind of training has always been more effective in DBZ as evidenced from their rise in power due to the Time Chamber.
    P3. You still acknowledged that goku was stronger meaning post losing his tail, Vegeta surpassed Goku only one time until Z ended.
    P4. It maybe temporary, but is still more than enough to KO vegeta in the anime. And in the manga Vegeta admits goku has mastered SSB making goku stronger. To determine strength you should compare maximum powers not base powers. If not, then Gohan would be leagues ahead of goku and vegeta’s base.
    P5. DBZ is the one that really developed Vegeta such as love for his family, swallowing pride etc. DBS is merely showing the developed vegeta which is kinda unneeded. If any development, DBS made him a clown in Bulma’s party in BoG arc.

  • SAB

    To compare who is stronger you need to see whose maximum power is greater and that includes any transformations unless it is a pseudo transformation. If you only compare bases, then goku and vegeta were pretty much equals in Buu saga but even Vegeta disagrees lol.
    P2. Goku always drags the fight. Against Frieza he didn’t go all out in the beginning despite the fact that he was the only hope. Besides, against #19 he also knows piccolo’s potential and we saw how piccolo beat #20 so there was no reason for goku to go all out.
    P3. While his power was raising, I think goku’s was raising at a faster pace since he too was training in the ship.
    P5. I don’t disagree but that still doesn’t mean Super developed his character.

    Everywhere else I think max powers should be compared to see who is stronger, not base powers and kaioken is stable enough to be included in Max power. Comparing Kaioken to base is the same as comparing SSJ to base when the other fighter cannot go SSJ and that’s totally fair.

  • Ahtma

    Yeah, like, Nozawa is 81. Once you hit 70-80 that’s the “pushing it close” range.

  • Ahtma

    Jared Leto would’ve been tolerable as Joker if they changed three things: got rid of his tattoos, taught him how to laugh better (plays Joker but laughs like Penguin), and made him more abusive towards Harley. The scene where they were in that vat of goop was neat but was totally out of line for Joker. Joker would’ve tapped his foot, checked his watch, gone down to the base floor, dumped the entire vat out, and told Harley to get up because they’re leaving now. A patronizing “and clean yourself up while you’re at it” would’ve completed that.

  • Ryumancer

    That’s acceptable and true.

  • Ryumancer

    One thing they’ll have to explain is what will stop Zeno from re-erasing it.

  • Ryumancer

    Hulk doesn’t wear tights. lol

    I forgot, who was Khal Drogo again?

  • Ryumancer

    1. Gee…great…thanks. It wasn’t Vegeta that needed to show something extraordinary. Magetta was evidence of that. If Magetta wasn’t so sensitive, Vegeta would have likely needed to go beyond SSJ to beat him.

    2. It’s irrelevant whether you “care” about them or not. It wasn’t ONLY Vegeta that was screwed over.

    3. He wanted it to be fair SO THAT CELL COULD PUSH GOHAN PROPERLY! Talking to a brick wall here. -_-

    4. They kinda did. Though punching a whole through spacetime is different from destroying one dimension entirely.

    PIS or not, Vegeta still shined in that fight. Even if they went stupid and gave Frieza a senzu, Vegeta still saw enough of Frieza’s moves to put together a strategy. He likely STILL would’ve beaten Frieza. Vegeta trained for 6 months to fight Black again, not a year.

    Vegeta lost against Black the first time “because he was weaker” at the time. Vegeta lost against Beerus “because he was weaker”. Vegeta got his ass kicked by Merged Zamasu “because he was weaker”. Vegeta got pwned by Hit because he was unaware of Time Skip and “was weaker” from his fight with Cabba. Your logic here is crap. And repeating what I said in a previous reply only makes it look like you have nothing left to say.

    Whether Frieza oulasts Vegeta this time is irrelevant. Goku is still likely going to be the winner and will most likely take up Vegeta’s wish. So Vegeta still wins.

    I see you’re too stubborn to change your mind despite the evidence as clear as day in front of you. And your lack of a point doesn’t have enough credibility to change my mind. I call this a stalemate. All you’re doing is annoying me that this point.

  • Ryumancer

    The Avengers shows had crappier art style and writers. Marvel may have the distinct advantage when it comes to feature length films but DC kills Marvel on TV. DC seems to have better stuff for long-term stories while Marvel seems to excel at origin stories.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    That is true though Marvel use to be just as good with their TV shows back in the day, Xmen, spiderman were awesome back than. Specially spectacular spiderman, best spiderman cartoon ever

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Oh and DC does have better games to

  • SAB

    Fine you can keep your opinion I was merely stating facts.

  • Ryumancer

    Oh the Spiderman and X-Men shows in the 90s? Oh hell yeah!

    I also actually liked X-Men Evolution.

  • Ryumancer

    Oh very true. Injustice craps all over that MvC crap.

    What MORON decided that Capcum would be the franchise that Marvel collaborates with?

  • Ryumancer

    Which are not actual tights. Those are just jeans that are too small for him.

    Ah. Okay. From what I’ve seen, Momoa looks quite friendly in real life.

  • Anthony_weaver86

    I loved both xmen theme music, sh*t had my neck hurting

  • Anthony_weaver86

    Idk but MVC use to be good

  • Ryumancer

    lol

  • Bbosa George Titan

    christain schemmel isn’t a Japanese he only DUBs Goku but not in the SUB, the original goku is Japanese!!! so don’t act like a feud

  • uhMayzedHD

    I talking about English Voice actor of Goku when I say Sean Schemmel people know I talking about English version. A lot people prefer the dub over the Sub version of DB.

  • BatmanDaGAWD

    right!