Dragon Ball’s Creator Unveils Secrets on Saiyans and How to Become a Super Saiyan

Posted on December 2, 2017

In the January 2018 issue of Shuiesha’s Saikyo Jump magazine – which was officially released just yesterday on December 1, 2017 – Dragon Ball’s legendary creator Akira Toriyama answered a handful of questions on Saiyans! He unveils surprising secrets of the beloved alien race, including how to really become Super Saiyan! Take a look at the full interview below!

Can anyone become a Super Saiyan if they train?
It’s not like anyone can become a Super Saiyan through training and anger. In order to become a Super Saiyan, one’s body must contain something called S-Cells. Once these S-Cells reach a certain amount, a trigger such as anger will explosively increase the S-Cells and cause a change in the body; that’s Super Saiyan. Most Saiyans have some S-Cells, although not a great quantity. The reason why Goku and Vegeta’s children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earth’s environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta. Lately everyone becomes Super Saiyan so easily, but it is no simple matter.

How does one increase S-Cells to become Super Saiyan?
Having a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase one’s S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend. However, one can’t reach the quantity necessary for becoming a Super Saiyan simply by having a gentle spirit, so a certain amount of battle power is indeed necessary. Looked at in this light, it’s easy to see why becoming a Super Saiyan came easy for Goku. He was able to become Super Saiyan thanks to inheriting lots of S-Cells! A gentle heart + high battle power resulted in Super Saiyan!!

Do the Saiyans have amazingly advanced science?
While their science isn’t all that advanced, I think they are ahead of Earth when it comes to spaceships and combat stuff, since they’ve been attacking other planets since way back when. But afterwards they joined the army of Frieza’s father Cold, which had vastly more advanced science than they did. Cold’s army provided them with virtually all of their weapons, armor, machines, etc.

Are the Saibaimen a Saiyan invention?
The Saibaimen are one of the Saiyans’ classic weapons. But the Saiyans didn’t invent them; rather, they are a lifeform discovered on a certain planet. Saibaimen are handy since they can fight on their own, but they are also an extremely rare and valuable item since harvesting their bulbs is difficult, so not everyone gets to use them. Plus they’re so wild they might attack you, so only a select few warriors are capable of handling them.

Do the Saiyans celebrate holidays like Christmas or New Year’s?
Saiyans are individualists at heart, so sadly they don’t hold those kinds of celebrations. Besides, lots of Saiyan warriors are off on other worlds and can’t come back home constantly, so I don’t think it could be like that. Saiyan children don’t play. Well, I guess fighting is like playing for them; they’re a terrifying race.

Was the legendary Super Saiyan Frieza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?
In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God. And that’s why there’s that ceremony to become Super Saiyan God.

Why did Beerus search for Super Saiyan God?
Beerus probably picked up on information about Yamoshi’s spirit in his prophetic dream. The fact that this is recorded in the Namekian book of legends is likewise because the Namekian elder who wrote it sympathized with Yamoshi’s spirit.

How can I become strong like the Saiyans?
While I think you’re better off not becoming like the Saiyans, your first step should be to become able to eat anything, then go train with the Turtle Hermit. If that doesn’t work, I guess you can try gathering the Dragon Balls and making a wish.

What foods do Saiyans like?
As you can probably tell by looking at Goku and the others, Saiyans basically eat any food that seems edible; likes and dislikes aren’t a factor. I think they have fairly sturdy digestive systems in order to survive. The children still aren’t quite so sturdy, but they soon get used to it.

What do Saiyans have trouble with?
Probably studying; it’s not just the kids who struggle with it.

Do all Saiyans become combatants?
A baby’s battle power is measured as soon as they are born. If their numbers pass a certain standard, then they are considered upper-level warriors and immediately raised as combatant candidates. On the other hand, those whose numbers remain low even after a certain amount of time has passed are regarded as lower-level warriors, and become either engineers or are sent off to a planet somewhere as infiltration babies. If they grow strong enough to conquer that planet, then they can return to their home world as a combatant. However, infiltration babies do not have a high survival rate. Raditz was an upper-level warrior and assigned to the same group as Nappa as a proper combatant. Before long Vegeta was added to that group, too.

Do Saiyans train to fight?
Most Saiyans are born with a talent for battle, but they still need to be taught the trick behind flying and stuff like that. Of course, some kids manage to fly even without being taught. In Goku’s case, he was on Earth where people flying was simply unheard of, so he was pretty slow to learn it. Only a select few Saiyan children receive a short period of special training in order to acquire even greater battle power.

Via Herms98

  • Salador

    I suppose it answers the mystery of becoming a Super Saiyan but….. what about Cell?

  • randy191993

    What about him? If he was made of Saiyan Cells from Goku specifically he’d have S-Cells. In that case Super-Perfect Cell would probably be his super saiyan state. He doesn’t exactly have hair that can turn golden.

  • Salador

    I guess that make sense.

  • Nero Angelo

    MIDI-CHLORIANS!
    Seriously, was ANYBODY else thinking “MIDI-CHLORIANS” while readin this stuff?
    Also, Radditz being a “High Level” (High Level = Elite?) Fighter? Seriously??? was the Saiyan Standard for Elites THAT low?

  • Kaihedgie

    So they basically came out and officially dispelled the notion that Dragon Ball is about hard work :V

  • Christopher Cannon Jr.

    The only holiday Saiyans celebrate is Frieza Day, unfortunately.

  • Christopher Cannon Jr.

    Makes sense, but I’ll take the whole hard work, pain of loss, and anger to achieve Super Saiyan any day.

    Hard to tell if Toriyama planned this out when he first made Super Saiyan, or he just made it up on the fly, most likely the latter of course.

    If he did plan it out, I’d like to think he thought during the beginning of the Buu Saga when Trunks and Goten went Super Saiyan

  • Nero Angelo

    He probably watched the Star Wars Prequels and thought “So Midi-Chlorians are in the body of life forms and decide how sensitive a life form is towards the Force… the more Midi-Chlorians, the more sensitive… I can use that for an explanation on how to become a Super Saiyan as well!”
    ANd so the S-Cells were born…

  • Yomi

    That makes a lot of assumptions.

  • Yomi

    He was hanging around the Prince and the General; even from a young age.

  • Ahtma

    Toriyama doesn’t plan anything and has admitted in interviews he writes without thinking what will come next.

  • Ahtma

    Toriyama is a huge fan of Star Wars and has drawn art for it before so it’s oddly enough not implausible.

  • Nelsonic

    This is bullshit.

  • Patrick Beanman Martin

    The key difference is Midi-Chlorians affect everyone and exists IN the universe(aka the Force itself). S-Cells only deal with saiyans. Someone on reddit said it better but going off just that? They’re completely different. Now if everyone could go Super Saiyan and have S-Cells? Then Nero would have a point.

  • Christopher Cannon Jr.

    Yeah, like I said, most likely the latter.

  • Ahtma

    It’s still a valid comparison in the way of making cool powers mundane by blaming it on germs.

  • The Real Tobi (Cana)

    He is a Star Wars fan, but you are right it is an assumption XD. I believe he drew a small thing on the Phantom Menace. C-3PO appears in one of his works, and Mashiroto’s house in Dr.Slump is R2-D2

  • KDG

    It sucks that Toriyama makes up this nonsense on the fly and never thinks any of it through. And you have no choice but to accept it as canon because he created the Dragon Ball universe, after all.

  • KDG

    Makes sense that Raditz would be considered a high level warrior. Most of the Saiyan race was pretty weak without the aide of a full moon. They were very talented in battle, and had the potential to grow stronger through injury and training, as they were in fact a warrior race. But considering the fact that they usually only attacked planets when those planets were nearing a full moon, I’d imagine they didn’t often get injured, and training was probably a foreign idea to them since they were so arrogant and proud of their own natural battle prowess.

    Overall, they were pretty weak as a race, which is why certain standouts like Nappa were considered elite. King Vegeta was probably the strongest Saiyan of his time, and even he was weaker than Dodoria and Zarbon. That should tell you something about their standards, and the overall status of their fighters.

  • KDG

    I’m so relieved that Universe 2 has been erased. If I had to continue hearing the word “love” being said 50+ times per episode for another couple of weeks, I was going to go insane. As for Universe 6, I like that the two Namekians fused with their entire race in preparation for the tournament. It goes to show some of the last ditch efforts of some of the universes in the short time they had to prepare in hopes for surviving the tournament.

  • Leo LeiGto

    spoiler alert.

  • oodee

    Midichlorians. Yay.

  • KDG

    Seems to be the general consensus.

  • Asuma (Scouter)

    Other than this S-cell nonsense, neat. By this explanation I guess that makes Broly Anakin. Wait that makes sense, whiny babies who become incarnations of death.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Its Awesome when there is an AWESOME episode. You will be missed Namekians… Don’t worry guys. Universe 7 will win it for ALL!

  • Ahtma

    They weren’t a weak race, they were just underdeveloped. With time they eventually would’ve reigned supreme in the universe just because they are perfectly constructed for combat and battle physiologically.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Another proof that he’s too senile and needs to retire

  • KDG

    I doubt it. Each Saiyan arguably had the potential to be stronger than they became, but overall I don’t think the majority of them would have amounted to much simply because not every one had the potential to be a Goku or Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta were the cream of the crop, much like Frieza and King Cold were likely the cream of the crop of their species, or Krillin and Tien are the cream of the crop of the human race. Collectively they probably could have become a powerful species, which is why they were expunged by Frieza, but I don’t think they could have reigned supreme in the universe without having to rely heavily on the might of Goku and/or Vegeta. I believe that even with training and zenkai boosts, each warrior would have eventually hit a power cap respective of their own personal potential. Warriors like Goku and Vegeta seem to just have limitless potential. I will agree with you that physically their race as a whole is perfectly constructed for combat, however that’s mostly limited to their natural battle prowess, zenkai boosts, and the fact that they age slowly relative to other species. However, it’s become evident from battles fought by Goku, Vegeta, and their offspring that eventually Saiyans reach a point where zenkai boosts no longer take place, and their continued development relies solely on their own personal growth potential. On Namek, Frieza and his men, who have witnessed and are familiar with the Saiyan race, have noted upon meeting Goku in battle that he was special even among a warrior race like the Saiyans. Frieza also recognized from an early age that Prince Vegeta was special among the Saiyans, which is why he took a personal interest in Vegeta and took him from his father when he was young. Clearly they didn’t feel that way about each individual Saiyan, most likely because they weren’t all that special as a whole.

  • KDG

    I wouldn’t say he’s senile. This isn’t anything new from Toriyama. Throughout the entire run of the Dragon Ball series, from the original, to Z, and on to Super, Toriyama has always made up crap on the fly, and retconned many important details and rules of the universe he himself created. King Piccolo and Kami were originally demons, and could spawn offspring at will who didn’t always share the same traits as the Namekian race he then made up in Z. Potara Fusion was originally permanent and Vegito’s separation was a fluke caused by being absorbed by Super Buu, until recently when that got retconned and became an hour-long limit. Hercule became the world champion and the world inexplicably forgot who Goku is, as well as the fact that certain martial artists could fly and fire ki, despite having seen it with their own eyes only roughly 11 years prior to the Cell Games, etc. This random S-Cells crap is nothing uncharacteristic of Toriyama. He’s simply a bad writer, and that’s fine. We still somehow manage to love his work, whether due to nostalgia, or otherwise.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    But the main differences is that his “exucses” of retcons are becoming worse and worse since the start of Buu Saga. He needs to pass the torch to other good writers. He just can’t deal anymore.
    Btw, the story of the original ssg was so funny, like he became a ghost nappa alike instead of reaching other world

  • Ahtma

    Every generation of Saiyans gets exponentially stronger because of the strength of their parents. King Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan of his time and Vegeta claims that he had already surpassed him as a child in strength. This may not hold true for half-breeds because they have their own set of rules and peculiarities but if you think about it Goten and Trunks could’ve ended up stronger than Gohan, Goku, or Vegeta. At the ages of 7 and 8 they were at levels of strength comparable with at least first form Frieza (source: Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return!).

  • KDG

    Sounds more like he borrowed some inspiration from Naruto on that one. The original Super Saiyan God’s spirit wandering and seeking a new savior sounded slightly reminiscent of Indra’s or Ashura’s chakra reincarnating itself in the Uchiha and Senju/Uzumaki bloodlines, with a slight twist in that it needs to be awakened through a ritual involving 6 righteous-hearted Saiyans. It also doesn’t make sense considering it’s been made apparent through Vegeta that any Saiyan can access godly ki by suppressing their own ki. Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan God without that silly ritual through training.

  • KDG

    It’s been said that every generation gets exponentially stronger, but the question is exactly how true is this? Raditz grew to adulthood and seemed to be exceptionally weak in comparison to Bardock. Granted we never got a power reading on Bardock, but he seemed pretty powerful compared to the rest of the Saiyans and even Frieza’s own men, with a growth potential comparable to Goku’s. If anything, Akira Toriyama did a poor job at creating the rules and details of the many species he himself created, and came up with new rules as he went along, without ever considering the canon material he had already written to begin with, especially in regards to the Saiyans.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Too much “inspirations” on this serie. Not to mention all the ideas he/they stole from Multiverse. The fact is that Toriyama bullshits used to be bearable but now it’s becoming to forced. Yeah, Akira never was good with writing but the best thing on Dragon Ball(Classic and Z) was the fights. The fights were so beautiful and classy on the first DB, and the humor was pretty funny too. Z was more dark and with more action and hardcore destruction. But Super lacks all of these things. The writing is too lazy and the animations are too boring(And sometime, ugly). Few fights on Super were good.

  • Ahtma

    The thing is Raditz was really underhanded with how he fought and wasn’t ever comfortable with being pushed back in a challenge. We barely see any of him so we don’t know how full the extent of his training was but like it says above, other than special circumstances Saiyans never got serious training. What I think happened with him was that his initial battle power was judged as high, he was placed as being a stronger lower-class warrior, and that was the end of it. Vegeta as a child was regularly testing and pushing himself, Raditz seemed much more complacent where his power was.

  • KDG

    Yeah, it’s forced, but that’s to be expected. He was forced to revive a series that ended over 20 years ago. If you thought he was forgetful when he was actively writing and expanding the Dragon Ball universe, just imagine how much he would have forgotten after 20 whole years.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    He was? How? I don’t think he’s doing all that against his will or something

  • KDG

    It’s to my understanding that Toei Animation wanted to revive Dragon Ball Z with a new series. He agreed to do so, but is not directly writing for Dragon Ball Super, but rather his successor, Toyotaro, writes the story, with Toriyama taking more of a supervisor role, approving or disapproving of stuff as he sees fit, and I believe designing some of the characters. If I’m wrong, or if anyone knows more about this than I do, feel free to correct me or add on where necessary.

    Personally I always thought reviving the Dragon Ball universe was a bad idea from the moment Dragon Ball Super was announced, so I was fortunate enough to go into watching Dragon Ball Super with extremely low expectations to begin with. With those low expectations, I managed to thoroughly enjoy most of the series, as I never expected a masterpiece, or even decent writing.

  • KDG

    Perhaps. But if Vegeta and Nappa are any indication of what their group was like as a whole (meaning with Raditz included), I think it’s safe to assume that they approached many of their battles in base form, only transforming into a Great Ape when necessary in the interest of self-preservation, as Vegeta did when he realized he couldn’t overpower Goku’s Kaioken. He probably would have become stronger had he lived longer, but it’s doubtful he would have become much stronger. They all seemed pretty confident in their abilities without transforming, uncomfortable with the idea of being pushed back, and weren’t above using underhanded means to gain the upper hand in battle. We see this in Nappa’s willingness to ask Vegeta for help after being beaten to a pulp by Goku, and Vegeta practically throwing a tantrum and being more than willing to blow up the entire Earth to avoid being defeated by Goku whom he deemed a lesser Saiyan than himself. Overall, I’d say Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa had very similar attitudes, and Raditz was just a weakling who couldn’t even overcome something as minor as having his tail squeezed. The fact that that alone almost decided Raditz’s fate shows me where he was as an experienced fighter from a warrior race.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Yeah I think the same but I think that Akira was a bit greedy too. Even if they share rights from the serie, the sign “Akira Toriyama” makes things sells. Everyone hated GT because Akira wasn’t making too much part of it. Toyotaro is doing a good job but it’s not the only one writing. That’s why the manga is so different. I also thinks that Toriyama is supervising it badly…
    The DB department is also another tool to milk the franchise way more. Honestly, the things I really wish for the franchise is a reboot or a chance to let other good writers produce good stuff from the universe rather than Toei.
    I also think that it’s such an A$$hole move from them to steal a lot of ideas from Dragon Ball Multiverse fanmanga. Why don’t try to hire GogetaJr and Salagir then? I’m sick of the greed on the DB industry

  • KDG

    Well I don’t know exactly how true it is, but I remember reading years ago that the Dragon Ball franchise was a huge contributor to Japan’s economy as a whole, and thus Akira Toriyama was often pressured to continue writing the Dragon Ball Z manga because it was a huge cash cow. If it’s true, I would imagine that as the reason for the Majin Buu Saga and Goku being brought back from the dead permanently despite being content with remaining in the afterlife for good. It would also explain why year after year a new Dragon Ball Z game is released, even after the series had been dead and gone for years. It’s just an easy cash grab considering how popular a franchise it is, and the fact that Dragon Ball/Z was the introduction to the anime world for billions of westerners.

    I don’t think Dragon Ball GT was hated so much due to Akira Toriyama’s lack of involvement in its story, but rather that objectively it was just a bad series altogether. In my opinion, the character designs were decent, the idea of Super Saiyan 4 and its design, and the fact that the adventure aspect that was lost after the Namek Saga ended was reintroduced in the form of universal travel was great. However, the overall execution was just bad altogether. In many ways, I liked GT. And I think the entire premise behind the Shadow Dragons as a consequence of over-abusing the Dragon Balls – basically using them to play god and decide who gets to live or die – was excellent, and I’d love to see something similar in the future so that dying could stop being just a minor time-consuming inconvenience. But Dragon Ball GT was just bad overall, and I think that’s what people hated about it the most.

  • Ryumancer

    I don’t think the U6 Namekians fused with their ENTIRE race. I remember them saying they had volunteers.

  • KDG

    I don’t know how large the population of their planet is/was, but that looked like A LOT of volunteers. Just sensing the amount of Namekians inside each of those fighters managed to completely overwhelm Piccolo for a moment. Gohan definitely got the shine he has deserved for years, though, and that was awesome. He fought extremely well against them while Piccolo almost completely dropped the ball on that fight once their fused powers stabilized. The Namekians fought a good fight though, but they had to know there was no way in hell they were taking out all seven Universe 7 fighters who were still in the game. Now I can’t wait to see Vegeta’s fight now that he’s pissed after once again watching the Saiyan race go extinct.

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    ” Well I don’t know exactly how true it is, but I remember reading years ago that the Dragon Ball franchise was a huge contributor to Japan’s economy as a whole, and thus Akira Toriyama was often pressured to continue writing the Dragon Ball Z manga because it was a huge cash cow.”
    Holy damn…Are you serious? It’s this is REALLY hard to believe, sorry. Unless it has also something with Japanese nationalism.
    If it’s true then I feel really sad. The franchise it’s too big to be so limited to one’s nation interest, come on!

  • KDG

    Feel free to research it if you so please. I, myself, don’t doubt it at all. Dragon Ball/Z has made anime as a whole more popular and mainstream, and is easily one of the most iconic anime series of all time. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that Japan’s economy has benefited greatly from the popularity of the Dragon Ball franchise, and the resulting popularity of the anime/manga industry worldwide. Think about how desperately Shueisha and Toei have attempted to keep the franchise alive after Dragon Ball Z ended. They created Dragon Ball GT to keep the franchise going. When the popularity of GT declined, they re-dubbed and re-released Dragon Ball Z by remastering it. Then they re-did Dragon Ball Z, shortening it by removing the filler and released Dragon Ball Z Kai. And they continuously funded and released new Dragon Ball Z games annually for both consoles and handhelds, and eventually PC in the form of the MMORPG Dragon Ball Online. When game sells began to gradually decline as fans grew weary of the same recycled sub-par crap they released year after year, the special “Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!,” followed by “Battle of Gods,” and “Resurrection of F.” And then the series was revived altogether with Dragon Ball Super. Can you name another franchise that has put forth so much effort to remain afloat and relevant? I don’t think I can.

  • Ahtma

    I actually just remembered that it’s outright confirmed Raditz doesn’t have good training: grabbing Vegeta and Nappa’s tail won’t stop them because they trained to eliminate that weakness. I wouldn’t equate transforming and having natural power, and I also wouldn’t call what you listed underhanded. Nappa asked Vegeta for help because he got the thrashing of his life, but I always interpreted that as him asking Vegeta to help him up.

    Nappa and Vegeta also had massively different roles and expectations compared to Raditz. Nappa was the general of the Saiyan army and from an important family, Vegeta was the prince. Raditz was born from a lower class family. I think what happened with Raditz was he was bred into complacency with minimal power and then developed the same pride Nappa and Vegeta had but with none of the refinement. Plus, he was a kid when he gets told “hey, your mom and dad and entire planet have been destroyed.” Nappa was adjusted to the horrors of war and was still thrown from that, Vegeta has quite a lot of issues that this probably contributed to. We never get to know what Raditz was like after the destruction of Planet Vegeta, but I really think it messed him up if at least a little.

  • KDG

    Perhaps. Most of what you said is definitely plausible. Personally, I would think being sent out on missions to eradicate whole civilizations alongside Vegeta and Nappa would be perfectly adequate training for any Saiyan, seeing as one of their greatest contributors to their constantly increasing power levels is actual combat itself. But you’re right; not enough is known about Raditz’s past to confirm anything. I don’t know if I believe the destruction of Planet Vegeta really messed up any of them. Being born into a warrior race that was constantly employed to attack other planets throughout the universe, I’d like to think Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz, as well as every other Saiyan understood that death was an occupational hazard. Coupled with the fact that many Saiyans, as young as infants, were routinely sent on these missions, I don’t think many of them had any familial or attachments. Vegeta didn’t seem too bothered with learning that his race had been expunged, and seemed a lot more psychologically affected by the ego-crushing idea of being royalty who was enslaved his entire life by the same powerful tyrant who administered the genocidal blow to the people he was destined to rule.

    Another factor that leads me to believe Raditz wouldn’t have grown much stronger is the completely different backgrounds and environments between himself and Goku. Granted they had both experienced combat throughout their entire lives. However, Goku arguably was only weak by the time Raditz arrived on Earth due to his background and environment. Goku had spent his entire life in combat and training, but on Earth where the average fighter was much weaker and more fragile in comparison to the many different species in the universe. I think Goku, at that point, would have been on par with the likes of Vegeta and Nappa had he been traveling throughout the universe, constantly risking his life under the orders of Frieza. Raditz still managed to be weak even while most likely not relying on his Great Ape form, while Nappa and Vegeta continued to grow. Raditz may have been born into a low-class family, but Goku and Bardock both belonged to that same low-class family, and their more dangerous combat experiences made them as powerful as elites. Raditz would have a hard enough time killing a single Saibaman after a lifetime of pillaging planets and committing genocide with the Prince and the General.

  • Raftleon

    lol so basically everyone gets their info from herms huh?

    also that image got me thinking… how OP would GT goku be with UI? XD

  • Koibito888

    Not as OP as Super Goku with UI lol.

  • Koibito888

    How? Everything about the S-Cells was an obvious thing. People have been saying for years that Goten and Trunks got SSJ early because they inherited it from their parents. SSJ was always a biological thing, an evolution, at the core of it’s concept it always had to come down to cells it’s just that no one thought that Toriyama or anyone would describe that specifically. It just has a name now.

    About the SSJG the form and ritual is a new concept anyway so he can make up any story for how it came to be that he wants. Linking it to the SSJ story just makes it attach to something familiar and is a cool thing. Nothing was wrong with any of this interview.

  • Koibito888

    Yet it always ends up making sense.

  • Koibito888

    Nope. Still takes hard work.

  • Koibito888

    This was the best info drop ever, I mean the S-Cells were obvious already, they just have a name now. And the SSJG story is really cool.

    Though interesting it still leaves open for another character – Toriyama made it so that Yamoshi had no room to actually go SSJG when alive, but the ritual had to already exist to be written about and for Beerus to dream of Yamoshi as the SSJG meant as a spirit he was an SSJG. Yamoshi had to have become an SSJG after he died but before Goku did the ritual. So when he said Yamoshi set out to find 6 warriors, a new 6th person had to have done the ritual for it to be created to be written about later, meaning the SSJG Shenron described in the movie who actually fought and died after the form ran out had to be another character using Yamoshi’s spirit or whatever. Hence the ‘in a certain sense they are the same person’.

  • dbz

    universe 2 and universe 6 was eliminated at the same time ah well and there only 13 minutes left of the tournament anyway I cant wait for episode 119

  • Minta Jatah

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  • Mugetsu a’k’a SS4 Gohan

    That episode was soooo awesome.
    The fights, dialogue and animation everything was a 10/10! Yet people still complain about the smallest thing s m f h!
    I don’t really care anymore they are obviously trolls. That scene alone when Goku and Gohan take the kamehameha stance was amazing with the music and all. Yes, Universe 2 fighters where pretty pathetic looking but that’s Dragon Ball ffs! The Fight choreography in this episode was top notch. Fuq those complaining trolls!

  • Leo LeiGto

    As a usual complaining troll i agree the episode was awesome. Fuq all the white knights defending the rest of this show and the BS it usually is. Hopefully it continues good but we will see.

  • Leo LeiGto

    Super Op. SS4 too stronk

  • Yomi

    Lol, a blogspot link, how very elusive.

  • Kaihedgie

    Hard work is the long route. Genetics is the short route :V

  • Koibito888

    And look where that got them lol

    Hard work still stomped

  • Enturax/Turbotrup

    I hate how Toriyama japanese’d every high-level creatures in DB – Kais, Black who even used a f-ing Susanoo and now that prophecy dude bs he came up with only recently and, for some reason, doesn’t have a name related to a vegetable, lol.

  • Ryumancer

    He’s a moron and a troll. Pay him no mind.

  • Meliodas

    95% of Naruto was a rip-off of something else. From the beginning to the Chuunin exam was a copy/paste from HxH. All Ashura/Indra stuff came from Japanese mythology just like the tail beast.

    And don’t forget that Vegeta is in another class of Saiyan and we can’t say that Vegeta didn’t use any type of ritual. Maybe Whis know another way to give God ki to someone.

    So yeah there’s some plot hole like it always been in DB universe but it’s not copy from Naruto. Toriyama probably took out a old myth and adapted it for DB just like pretty much all anime/manga

  • Meliodas

    DBS manga script is excellent and nothing can’t be said against it. It’s not perfect but we can saw that the anime is just doing 110% of fan-service while the manga give a real DB feeling

  • Meliodas

    And then came DB:Evolution which was the trigger for Toriyama to continue the serie because he didn’t want someonelsr to destroy it once again

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Well..not exactly but it’s good

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Not obvious if you read the entire lore. Also, Goten and Trunks was always bullshit. Should never happened that way

  • Rodrigo Monterier

    Well, they tried the same with a lot of old franchises…I also knew that anime industry was facing crisis and I just linked the points, but what annoys me is the lack of respect and love from the franchise. They’re just milking! No artwork gets good when the artist don’t put love and effort on it. This makes me sad

  • Sakura Haruno

    I’m fine with it, they’re kids of one of the strongest people in the universe. It’s obvious that they should make this type of progression.

  • Koibito888

    It is though. Again SSJ was always biological. It was always something physical, an evolution, something that could physically be passed down. That means it has to, at some level, have to do with the body down to the cellular level. It just now has a name.

    Goten and Trunks were no different from Future Trunks in the manga they were fine nothing was wrong with them doing that.

  • Kaihedgie

    No, plot armor did :V

  • Ryumancer

    Forcing the SSJG form on us just as much as the anime forces the SSJB on us doesn’t make it superior at all. -_-

  • KDG

    I’m just glad Universe 2 no longer exists. I was beginning to lose my patience with hearing “love” every 5 seconds. I thought it was a little sexist that the ultimate attack Ribrianne and her idiots couldn’t even pull off was so easily used by the significantly weaker men on her team who somehow managed to even replicate their stupid transformation, but I suppose that’s to be expected. Either way, that annoying universe’s erasure was much needed.

  • Ryumancer

    As annoying as the fighters, kai and Goddess of Destruction were, I felt sorry for the normal denizens of Universe 2. They went out like champs. They knew they were done. And they cheered anyway. Poor bastards. And those last 3 fighters actually put forth a valiant effort.

    But yeah, on the whole, I agree that Universe 2 needed to go. Universe 4 should be next. Quitela is such an A-hole, even worse than Champa was.

  • KDG

    To me, that Super Saiyan God crap sounded stolen straight out of Naruto. Not to mention it doesn’t add up since the ritual isn’t even needed to gain Super Saiyan God. Goku and Vegeta gained permanent access to god ki by training and learning to compress their ki to create god ki. And I’m willing to bet Toriyama completely forgot about this fact when he came up with this nonsensical Yamoshi who, like Indra and Ashura, seemingly is nothing more than ki looking for a worthy transmigrant.

  • Ryumancer

    Yamoshi is an anagram for “bean sprout” in Japanese. So yes, he did have a vegetable-punned name.

  • Ryumancer

    I wouldn’t say always but it adds up most of the time.

  • KDG

    Agreed, they went out like champs. They didn’t panic, cry, nothing. They just continued to cheer on their idiots until they ceased to exist. It was a very respectable way to lose. I actually like the way Champa and Universe 6 went out too. I didn’t expect Beerus to care about Champa’s fate, but I guess there’s more to him than we know of so far.

    I have a feeling Universe 3 is next, with Vegeta about to beat Katopesla to a pulp over the erasure of the Saiyans.

  • KDG

    I’m aware. It’s also evident in his writing. It’s kind of annoying.

  • KDG

    Most anime takes inspiration from Japanese mythology. But it also seems that Toriyama lately has been taking inspiration from other forms of established media. I don’t watch or care about Star Wars, but the general consensus is that this S-Cells nonsense borrows heavily from something called Midichlorians from the Star Wars franchise, so I don’t even slightly doubt Toriyama took the Indra/Ashura transmigrant idea straight out of Naruto and slightly twisted it for the sake of a Super Saiyan God backstory. And we do know that Vegeta didn’t use a ritual. It was seen during their training in the earlier episodes of Dragon Ball Super where Goku and Vegeta are sparring on Beerus’ home planet when they discovered god-ki during their clash. Whis did not give Goku nor Vegeta god ki. He allowed them to naturally discover it on their own through their training.

  • Koibito888

    It actually does add up because unlike the manga, where the plot point of vegeta getting god was stupid and poorly written, the anime actually makes it quite clear that ssjg IS exclusive to the ritual, that you DO need the ritual to go ssjg. You don’t need it to get God ki but you need it to go ssjg – which is NOT a form you just get by having god ki.

    What vegeta did was purely the natural way. He learned god ki JUST by learning to hold in and specifically does not have ssjg.

    Vegeta not only made it clear he was going to learn god ki without the ritual but after the fact goku even states that vegeta ‘even did it without the advantage of first feeling god ki’ like he did so you are incorrect, the ritual is needed meaning that yes the story does in fact fall in line with it.

    Not to mention Indra and ashura were spirits that reincarnate, definitely not the same thing. This is more comparable to hagoromo which even then is a broad thing, that wasn’t some uber unique thing naruto did they just had a wandering spirit existing as energy, yamoshi was just a wandering spirit, he wasn’t a mass of ki he didn’t exist in a network inside of ki, all of that is assumption on your part to force a comparison.

    And if you’re going to fault everything that has a wandering spirit as ripping off of naruto you got a lot more fiction to blame.

  • Koibito888

    Ultra Instinct = a technique whis had been trying to teach them since the start of their training that goku had to go through a lot to activate.

    Hard work stomped.

  • Koibito888

    All of the important stuff anyway

  • KDG

    You may have a point, as I don’t read the Dragon Ball Super manga. I’m aware that there are many differences between the manga and anime, but I’m not aware of what all of those differences are. So thank you for clearing that up for me.

    As far as the comparison to Indra and Ashura, I’m not saying it’s exactly the same thing at all. Most people who use an idea as a basis for their own wouldn’t just blatantly rip an existing idea down to the very last detail. I definitely feel that it is reminiscent of Naruto, not the exact same thing. You cannot deny the similarities between the two. I’m also not claiming that anything from Naruto is super unique or original. That, my friend, would be an assumption on your part. And I’m certainly not faulting everything as ripping off of Naruto. The fact is most if not all mangaka get their inspiration for their ideas from other mangaka, as well as from ancient Japanese folklore. It happens. For a long time Bleach was accused of ripping from Yu Yu Hakusho. Much of Naruto borrowed inspiration from old Japanese folklore. We all know this. So with this in mind, I would hardly think it unreasonable that Toriyama, an incredibly forgetful mangaka who constantly makes up new details on the fly without much thought, would borrow inspiration from other currently popular media. It’s no coincidence that many feel that the S-Cells stuff borrowed inspiration from Star Wars, especially considering he only recently said anything about S-Cells well over a decade after Super Saiyan had already been established an accepted. Which also leads me to believe his Super Saiyan God story borrowed inspiration from Naruto as far as Yamoshi being killed and wandering around as a spirit in search of a successor of sorts. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But can you deny the similarities and the possibility that he borrowed inspiration from Star Wars and Naruto with these most recent revelations? I’ll leave that to you to decide, but I don’t doubt it at all.

  • KDG

    I have to disagree with you there. I do honestly believe that Goten achieving Super Saiyan was bullshit. Trunks achieving Super Saiyan at age 8 possibly makes sense, but that’s a question of whether or not he had done much training with Vegeta. But then given Vegeta’s obvious shock upon seeing Trunks transform in front of him, chances are Vegeta hadn’t trained Trunks a day in his life up until they were preparing for the World Tournament. That said, Trunks achieving Super Saiyan was probably bullshit too.

    One could argue simple biology, or evolution. But by that logic, Goten and Trunks should be no more physically evolved than Gohan, as well as biologically the same. Yet look at how much it took for Gohan to achieve Super Saiyan. Gohan had been in life-or-death situations since the age of 5. He had also been training almost consistently since that age, with the exception of the year or two gap that Goku was in space prior to Frieza’s defeat. If it takes a gentle heart and high battle power to increase the S-Cell levels in a Saiyan, it shouldn’t have taken as much for Gohan to become a Super Saiyan as it did. Reaching that form should have come as easily to Gohan as it did for Trunks and Goten. It should have come easier, in fact.

    Goten achieved Super Saiyan through training with Chi-chi. Chi-chi was weaker than Yamcha. Nothing about her training with Goten should have resulted in his battle power being high enough to increase his S-Cell levels to a point that he could have achieved Super Saiyan. Gohan had been in and out of combat for nearly as long as he’d been alive, and it still took some pretty intense training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku before he was ready to transform. And Gohan had absolutely had more episodes of intense rage than anyone in the entire series with the exception of Vegeta. I honestly don’t see how Goten or Trunks should have had Super Saiyan come as easily and natural to them as it did in comparison to Gohan who didn’t achieve it until he was 11 and actually had to work hard to reach it.

  • KDG

    It took Gohan four more years and a significantly higher amount of effort to achieve Super Saiyan than it took Goten, and they have the exact same parents. I don’t see how such a transformation would have come more naturally and effortlessly to Goten than it did Gohan when they both fit the exact same criteria, share the same biology, and are both gentle-hearted, with Gohan clearly having MUCH greater battle power than Goten. Should Goten have achieved Super Saiyan? Yes. Should he have achieved it at the age of 7 while training with his weak human mother? No. Otherwise, Gohan should have been a Super Saiyan at age 5.

  • Koibito888

    No it’s the anime that states that Vegeta doesn’t have SSJG and specifically did so without.

    Well first off I still think you’re thinking of Hagoromo, he was closer to the comparison you’re making of a wandering spirit. You speculated that Yamoshi was ‘nothing more than Ki looking for a worthy transmigrate’ and that sounds more like Hagoromo who was literally in/part of chakra waiting to appear to worthy reincarnations while Indra and Ashura were just reincarnated souls.

    Second I’m sorry then, “that Super Saiyan God crap sounded stolen straight out of Naruto” sounded a lot like faulting the trope of exactly ripping off Naruto.

    Yes there are similarities because it’s using the same trope. But you used the words “stolen straight out of Naruto” which isn’t the case. Honestly I would believe if he didn’t get it from Naruto, I mean Hagoromo (or Indra and Ashura if thats the comparison you meant) is a rather deep end of series detail. I don’t know if Toriyama has the time to go and read through Naruto, or for some weird reason pick up late series Naruto, see and understand Hagoromo/Indra and Ashura’s whole deals, and then go ‘I wanna do something like that’.

    While S-Cells sound like Midichlorians a lot more than Yamoshi sounds like Hagoromo, same thing. I could believe more that he got that inspiration from Midichlorians a lot more but I could just as easily believe Toriyama described an already biological concept with cells. Midichlorians too are a rather obscure detail to casual fans, to assume he got inspiration for this specifically from Star Wars is to assume he’s as hardcore a fan as My Hero Academia’s writer who remembers these little details.

    Could they be drawn from it? Yeah, it’s just as likely if not more that he’s a busy guy who doesn’t get as deep into the above to take from these more intricate concepts.

    In any case, saying “that Super Saiyan God crap sounded stolen straight out of Naruto” as if to discredit the idea is just inapplicable. It probably wasn’t ‘stolen straight out of Naruto’ and the S-Cells thing makes sense and lines up with everything, the SSJG story is a good story to explain why the ritual exists as it does.

  • Koibito888

    To clarify Goten did not get SSJ training with Chi Chi this was a non canon anime scene and did not happen in the manga. Goten revealed he had SSJ as suddenly and without explanation as Trunks did, and yes Vegeta seemed to not know of it so both boys got it on their own (chances are they trained together, they did hint that that was a thing they did).

    Also future Trunks got SSJ just as easily as the canon History of Trunks part of the manga in which he already had it by the beginning of the story so them getting it easy has been a consistent thing.

    About Gohan you are entirely incorrect. People have been talking about Goten and Trunks inheriting the ability to get SSJ easier specifically because they were conceived after their fathers achieved SSJ, that was literally the basis of that entire idea being that Gohan wouldn’t have gotten it nearly as easy because obviously SSJ wasn’t a thing by Gohan’s conception. This was already a huge idea in the fandom as to why they got it so easily, now that Toriyama confirmed this it has a name, and Gohan would have inherited a LOT less S-Cells from Goku than Goten. So no it should come harder for Gohan than Goten – that pretty much had to be the case any based on Goku being an SSJ by Goten’s conception over Gohan’s, being partly why Toriyama’s explanation makes so much sense.

    And hard? Yes Gohan did work to get it but seriously compared to Goku and Vegeta he had it so easy. He was 10 in the manga and so at the age of ten Gohan just had to train for it, he didn’t even have to have that huge of a trauma he just had to image train and learn how to do it training with Goku. It sure as hell came a lot easier to him.

    As for Goten and Trunks. S-Cells increase under the conditions of a gentle heart, a gentle environment, and high battle power. They would be powerful, not as much as Gohan but they would have power so at least some increase of S-Cells should be acknowledged (note though that power seems to be the least thing you need as he starts with ‘you can’t do it just by having enough power’ so how much battle experience he has matters less – it may even hinder the count of Cells honestly), they have gentle hearts like Gohan (again not as much but they are incredibly innocent), but honestly they were raised in an even gentler environment than Gohan, by a lot. And then most importantly as Toriyama stated and as was already obvious, they inherited a lot of S-Cells from Goku and Vegeta – Goku who would have had a LOT less S-Cells to pass onto Gohan back when he was conceived.

    So not only would Goten and Trunks have a lot more S-Cells than Gohan, but on top of this Toriyama in the past has already stated Saiyans born without tails learn things faster and easier, so they would have a ridiculous number of S-Cells with which to go SSJ easily AND being born without tails would also let them learn it easier and faster. Honestly it wouldn’t make sense if it didn’t come easy to Goten and Trunks.

  • Koibito888

    I honestly don’t see how you would think Goten and Gohan fit the exact same criteria.

  • Koibito888

    No Toriyama writes the story. He specifically had said that he has written the U6/7 arc and he has maintained his same position, and even the recent mention that ‘in Toriyama’s version of the Black Saga, Goku and Vegeta did not fuse’, revealing that there is a Toriyama version.

    We knew this though as Toriyama has been known for Super to write the story and give that outline equally to Toei and Toyble but acknowledging the Toriyama version acknowledges that he does in fact write the stories of these arcs, not just footnotes. So Toriyama does write for Super directly.

  • Koibito888

    DBS’ manga gives the DB fanfiction feeling, not the DB feeling. The DB feeling is having explanations and new concepts slowly and naturally introduced over time, leaving enough to understand but some to wonder about and figure out as time goes on. The manga blurts out every explanation in paragraphs which is literally characteristic of DB fanfiction to overexplain things. Not to mention most of the explanations are bullcrap.

    The only thing that the manga did better than the anime was show more of Trunks’ own Buu Saga – but even that resulted in Trunks’ freaking healing powers so it doesn’t necessarily count entirely as better with that garbage concept.

    The anime does 110% fanservice but the fanservice it’s giving IS that real feeling of DB

  • Kaihedgie

    He actually wasn’t trying to attain it. In fact, both times he turned, it was when he got his ass kicked. Hard :V

  • Koibito888

    Again, Ultra Instinct, a technique Whis had been trying to teach them since the start of their training.

    Yes, he got his ass kicked, but thats not what activated the power up alongside Ultra Instinct.

    Goku’s power up came from his Ki pushing against the Spirit Bomb that was pushing in his Ki so hard that it broke through a point. It literally happened because of his effort against the Spirit Bomb and would not have happened if not for the power Goku had, which he also worked hard for.

  • Enturax/Turbotrup

    but it’s japanese ;P and even his legend sounds like taken straight from japanese mythologies

  • Ryumancer

    That’s Toriyama for you though. He makes stuff up as he goes along.

  • Enturax/Turbotrup

    Well, yeah. I often wondered if Dragon Ball/Z’s success belongs more to his editors and the Anime’s artists rather than Toriyama himself.

  • Ryumancer

    The Buu Saga had much less editors influencing Toriyama’s work and most people still like just about as much as the rest of Z.

  • Kaihedgie

    Gettin’ his ass kicked IS what triggered the transformation. The second time he transformed was when Kefla one-shot him out of his Kaioken Blue state with one hit. Again, no hard work, and it’s pretty silly to even call it the results of hard work when his own body is doing everything for him. Whenever Goku himself actually wants to fight back, his power suffers for it because the form requires no actual input from his mind. When he attempted to punch Kefla, his muscles briefly constricted and strained. Whis himself was pointing this out as the battle went on

  • Koibito888

    Actually Whis pointed out that it was Kefla’s intense energy against Goku’s that forced him to ‘break through his shell’ so it also was not getting his ass kicked, it was standing against a strong enough opponent in general. Remember the second time was intentional, Goku after he powered down stood still and focused, he wasn’t forced into unconsciousness he actually tried to use Ultra Instinct that time, resulting in the inability to attack because its harder to attack without thought.

    Goku specifically is working to learn Ultra Instinct in full that’s what his second use of the form was about entirely.

  • lolcatz6657

    well he did use the super dragonball with to revive his universes earth, so he cares for him at least to some degree lol

  • Kaihedgie

    The second time wasn’t intentional at all. Not sure why you’re pretending Goku has such forward thinking seeing as he wasn’t actually conscious when Ultra Instinct triggered.

  • Koibito888

    Yeah, the first time.

    The second time, against Kefla, Goku is awake, struggles to get to his feet, is all “not yet” with his eyes closed and focusing before he powers up and starts dodging her.

    Hell thats why attacking against Jiren was no problem but against Kefla he couldn’t attack because attacking takes focus. The first time Goku was unconscious and this time he was conscious and couldn’t properly not think to attack because being conscious, he actually had to try not thinking instead of just being unconscious.

    I mean did you even watch the fight? I’m watching him go into it against Kefla right now to confirm, literally how could you even think Goku went unconscious and just fell into Ultra Instinct? It’s clear as day watching him struggle to his feet before purposely trying to go Ultra Instinct.

    This is exactly what I’m talking about with bias, you already decided in your head that everything is bullcrap so you don’t need to think about it so you purposely miss details like this. Literally go watch the fight, it’s right there for you to see because clearly you need a refresher.

  • Nori Hiraoka

    S cells? the flip, you only need tingles in the back man

  • Enturax/Turbotrup

    I think I missed or don’t remember such a statement.
    When it comes to the Buu arc – there are tons of people who don’t like it because it was the most bs/forced Arc with a mediocre villain. And you have to keep in mind that, because it was the last Arc, Toriyama already knew what to avoid and how to satisfy fans, more or less.
    I personally think that Toriyama did a good job with majority of it, though. Like, Gotenks going SSJ3 was a complete bs, but it surely was fun to watch his fight against Buu.